Ab-Soul And Jay Rock On New Projects And What Makes TDE Tick From XXL’s Oct/Nov Cover Story

Ed. Note: The following interview with Ab-Soul and Jay Rock is pulled from the outtakes from XXL's TDE cover story in our upcoming Oct/Nov issue. 

There was no real rhyme or reason to how we grabbed the members of TDE for conversations during the photo shoot for our Oct/Nov cover story. We pulled who we could, when we could and let whatever order could come present itself. So it's telling that we were able to get Jay Rock and Ab-Soul together. (At first, Rock was ready to leave to give Ab a solo shot, but Ab requested that he stay—a quick series of small considerations and genuine deferences that speaks to everything about everything.)

They're an interesting pair—the gangbanger and the nerd; the first signee to TDE and the one Black Hippy member not ever signed to a major label; the one who's put out the least music and the one who's likely put out the most. Jay Rock's 2011 debut, the years-in-the-making Follow Me Home is one of the few great West Coast gangsta rap albums of the past few years, full of slow rolling, hard-nosed, street level observations. Ab-Soul, on the other hand, is an avid rap geek and easily the TDE member most likely to believe a conspiracy theory that you've never even heard of. Having released two albums in the past two years, he's practically ready to drop another one any day now. Jay Rock, on the other hand... —kris ex

Previously: Kendrick Lamar On TDE, His “Control” Verse And Fame From XXL’s Oct/Nov Cover Story
TDE’s Punch On Next Moves, Signing SZA And The Ruff Ryders From XXL’s Oct/Nov Cover Story

XXL: What’s your status with the next record?
Jay Rock: Basically, I'm just locked in the studio. I'm still just really taking it in, getting in there, coming up with new concepts. I'm just taking my time; ain't no rush to it. I'm just trying to get my craft together on the whole. I'm trying to step it up to a whole 'nother level—just with me, within myself, battling myself. I keep hearing everybody [asking], "When you dropping something?" It's coming, just be patient. I'm just trying to get everything together and stay focused.

What would you say is the biggest reason it's taking so long?
Jay Rock: It ain't really no reason. You wanna go when it feels right. If it don't feel right, don't do it. If you rushing, it's going to always go bad. But if it feels right to you and within your heart, then that's when you go. Right now, I just feel I got a long way to go within myself. Until I'm ready and until I'm right, that's when it's gonna drop.

Are you talking about the project as a whole or the songs you're coming up with or—
Jay Rock: Just everything. [From] the project to me, myself—like I said, I'm still trying to hone my craft a little bit better. I'm trying to battle myself and beat myself, you feel me? That's basically what it is.

It must be hard to be an MC around [the rest of the group] because you’re not that battle, backpack, lyrical type of MC but you’re around three guys that that’s just what they do. I imagine it's harder for you to find a pure sense of what you're trying to say.
Jay Rock: If you ever listen to us or been following us, you understand we all feed off each other. If you listen to all our albums, you hear a little of everybody [in everybody else] because we've been around each other so long like family. It's hard to explain. Soul, he can explain it better than I can. But when we hear each other's stuff, we all get motivated by listening to each other.

Ab-Soul: Rock was signed to Warner Bros. and their urban department at the time was questionable. It's just a lot of different politics to why you would probably think Rock is a little more quiet, because he really has to reintroduce himself to the public.

That's interesting. [Rock], you do have the very slow, structure thing about you—from the way you move to the way you rap; it's very methodical. These guys are more bouncing all over the place—[ScHoolboy] Q in his voice, Soul is more in his topics that he deals with, Kendrick more in his flows—they're kind of ricocheting all over the place and you’re always the one that’s sort of like step, step, step—like he said, that foundation. Do you think that's a good assessment of your personalities or is that just some shit that I’m making up?
Jay Rock: That sounds about right. [Laughs] I want to elaborate on what Soul was talking about earlier: A lot of people don’t really know that I was the foundation. Everywhere I went, they was with me. A lot of people don’t really understand how long it took, the grind that we did in a 12-passenger van, driving from California to Maine in this one van with all of us. It's still crazy. I’m still learning. Even though I was the forefront, I’m still learning, too.

What do you guys read? I’m sure [Ab-Soul] reads a lot of crazy shit or watches a lot of crazy documentaries. Do you guys share books? What's the response when you give him a book and say, "Here, you need to read this"?
Ab-Soul: [Smiles] I'm probably the only one reading. He probably won't even read it [if I give him a book]. I don’t want you to think—I’m not quite a cornball, but I'll pick up a book that somebody suggests. The last book I read was Seat of the Soul. That was a good one. Honestly, I just feel like a lot of literature for me is further confirmation. And it's important for me to use new words or words that I don’t hear because I learned a lot from rap that way, too. It's important for me to do that same thing for the generation behind me. I learned so much from Jay Z’s songs—my vocabulary, in general, just from his songs. I knew words before I knew what they meant, from listening to rap music.

Jay Rock: I remember growing up, just me and my cousin listening to rap music when we was little kids. We didn't even want to do our homework—all we wanted to do was watch the Box all day. We knew every rap song but didn’t know how to read words. That was kind of weird.

[Ab-Soul], you strike me as somebody who always wanted to be creative, to be an artist. Jay Rock strikes me as a reluctant person that didn’t necessarily want that, or kinda got forced into it. What’s the benefit of having the TDE infrastructure and access to the studio and rules and guidance? How's that informed who you are today?
Ab-Soul: I just think it's cool that you can spot an immediate distinction between the two of us; that you don't think we're so similar. We’re both from LA—but he’s from Watts; I’m from Carson. It's like different boroughs, so we are completely different. The way we talk, our dialect is different—from where he lives and vice versa. To one person, Jay Rock may come across as "this" or someone who does "this" and to others he may be telling their story. It's dope to me that you at least spot—whatever your opinion is, pick your poison, whatever’s your flavor—I’m glad you spot an immediate difference, that we both have different fingerprints. That’s very important.

One of strengths of your entire crew is that you share certain DNA strands. Everyone has some sort of relationship to rap but its very different; everyone has a relationship to gang culture but it's a very different relationship to gang culture.
Ab-Soul: Right. Like, I wouldn’t be able to walk through Jay Rock’s neighborhood if I wasn't cool with him. If I didn't know somebody over there personally, I can't just go over there.

Both: And vice versa.

What are your plans for the future? Say, 5 years from now or 10 or 15 years from now—rapping is over. What are you? Do you want to be businessmen, do you want to be other types of artists?
Ab-Soul: I’m just optimistic, man. I don’t have a 25-year plan or nothing like that. I couldn't sit here and say,"I wanna be a scientist when I’m done." But that sounds interesting to me.

Rock: You could be one though, dog—if you really wanted to.

Ab-Soul: That’s just a wild example. Just me, personally, I live for today.

How often do you guys rap for fun?
Ab-Soul: To be honest, bro, I really wrote a rap everyday, give or take, since I was 12 years old—I’m 26 now. Rap to me is kinda like drinking water, at this point. It's not something that I gotta "do." Sometimes it tastes great, if it's at the right temperature and sometimes it's bland.

Is it still fun for you guys?
Rock: Absolutely.

Ab-Soul: Of course, man. It’s the funnest game ever—this is Scrabble in motion.

Sometimes when it becomes a job or it's tied in to how you pay your bills, it's like, "Yo, this ain't fun anymore."
Ab-Soul: You don’t wanna treat it like it’s a job but I do wanna say that this is a job. People are actually spending money on us. They're probably going to spend money to pick up this issue or buy my album, come to my show. They're gonna spend dollars, so this is a job. It's my responsibility to get out here and do these things and holla at y'all and give back, reciprocate this energy—that's what HiiiPower is all  about. It's not that it feels like a job—nobody wants to have a job—it's just the greatest job. I love getting up and going to work.

Rock: I seen fans wait out there all day, from early in the morning for us to pull up, waiting in the rain and the snow. It is our job to give them people a good show.

What do each of you specifically bring to TDE right now—not in terms of the history, but right now? 
Ab-Soul: I think the biggest thing with all of us is just where we’re from. We're all from the same place, but different parts. We all kinda get the outlook on all of LA when we're in the same room. You can learn about Los Angeles in its entirety if you just go downstairs right now. I’m from Carson—that's where our headquarters just so happen to be so I guess I bring that Carson flavor. Jay Rock is from Watts, 90059, Kendrick—CPT, Q—South Central. This is LA in its entirety.

What do you think TDE brings to the music game?
Ab-Soul: I think we’re showing the importance of a movement, of teamwork and having a machine [behind you]. We’re not just co-workers. We really fell asleep in the studio with Jay Rock, working on songs. We really hustled together from the bottom, all of us. We didn’t just meet each other here and got record deals, you feel what I'm saying? We really all started together with nothing. If anything, this should represent "teamwork makes the dream work."

When you look back or think back to those first videos you guys did as Black Hippy, running round getting Chinese food and all of those things, what would you say to those guys if they were in this room for 30 seconds?
Ab-Soul: That’s a great out of body experience. I’d tell me, "When your hair grow just a little bit longer, bro, you gonna look tiiight. Just hang in there. You going through an ugly stage right now, but if you just hang in there you gonna look like Jesus." I’d tell Q to keep working out. [Laughs] I’d tell Dot [Kendrick], "You need to look a little more like Compton, dog. You’re looking a little too MTV for me."

Jay Rock: I’d tell myself, "Damned, dog. Loosen up a little bit." I was just too tough.

What caused you to loosen up between then and now?
Jay Rock: Just traveling and going [to] different places. I seen how these dudes are moving, too. Even though I was in front, I always sat back and played the background. I do go back and look at old footage of me [and see] how I used to be. It was just too much. I see it now and it's just starting to all come together. Like I said [earlier], I'm just taking my time with things and growing. I'm still growing, too.

You’re in an incredibly fortunate position where you took those knocks, but you didn’t have to take them for yourself. Like, the whole situation with Warner Bros., you walked away with—
Ab-Soul: You gotta think: Jay Rock took me and K. Dot all the way around the country, shaking DJ's hands, going to radio stations, meeting these people. So when Kendrick Lamar came back around they were already expecting it. They were waiting on us. That’s what Jay Rock represents.

Jay Rock: Exactly.

It's very rare that someone opens doors for other people and then has the opportunity to sit back and figure out what you want to do because the other people have gone through the doors and now they're holding the door open for you. A lot of people don't have the luxury of saying, "It gotta be right." It's more like, "It gotta be out."
Ab-Soul: That’s where the family comes in. This is my family. Nobody gets dropped from this. With your family members, you have issues with them and you have fights, disagreements and everything like that, but at the end of the day it's all family. Jay Rock can take all the time he needs to take to make sure he feels comfortable with what he puts out to the world.

Jay Rock: With my old music, I was just rapping, just having fun putting words together and rapping dope lines. You can't deny the shit we kicked was hard, but I was just rapping. Now I’m taking my time, putting concepts together. If you heard Follow Me Home, you could hear the concepts in the songs. I’m just trying to do more of that with this next one. I want to give the people something they could just really live with. We ain't trying to put no BS out.