From The Archives: Jay-Z, “Bout Me” [Originally Published October 2009]

Earlier this week, Jay-Z proved that he really is bigger than hip-hop on "Open Letter." After garnering criticism from members of Congress for his recent vacation to Cuba with Beyonce, Hov took 'em to task with a blistering two-and-a--half minute track. Now, as Jay expands his Roc Nation imprint and prepares for what is likely to be a lengthy media battle with certain politicians, XXL decides to look back to our interview with Hov from 2009.

JAY-Z is used to being talked about. Lately, though, industry innuendo and blog discourse have hinted at him outgrowing hip-hop. XXL brings your chat room to Mr. Carter’s office. Here’s what he thinks of your thoughts.

Working with Jay-Z keeps you on your toes. You’ve gotta be prepared to roll at a moment’s notice. And once things are in motion, plans change, then get rearranged. Start times for photo shoots and interviews are moved around, then locked down, then moved again. But if you want to work with arguably the greatest rapper of all time, you deal with it. It’s not like you don’t know how busy he is.

Over the past 13 years in hip-hop, Jay-Z has gone from an on-the-come-up lyricist (1996’s Reasonable Doubt), to a label owner (Roc-A- Fella Records), to a multi-platinum-selling rapper (1998’s Vol. 2... Hard Knock Life), to a classic-album-recording artist (2001’s The Blueprint), to a major-record-label executive (Def Jam president), to the builder of a sprawling empire, with a successful clothing line (Rocawear), stakes in an NBA team (New Jersey Nets), a chain of trendy sports bars (40/40 Club), his own fragrances (9IX and X) and a creative new venture (Roc Nation). That’s not even delving into his smaller, lesser-known, unconfirmed, secret or on-hold business dealings.

But most recently, Jay’s time has been dedicated to The Blueprint 3, his 11th solo album and 14th overall including three collabora- tion LPs. It’s the second follow-up to the Brooklyn MC’s classic,  , released on the eight year anniversary of the revered disc, which is also the eighth anniversary of 9/11. But unlike any of Hov’s previous LPs, BP3 doesn’t have a Def Jam or Roc-A-Fella logo on the back. After 12 years signed to Def Jam—three of those as pres—Jay split ways with the powerhouse label, after buying back his last remaining album from the company for a reported $5 million. He’s since been focused on Roc Nation, an entertainment, publish- ing and management company he has in an unprecedented partnership with mega concert promoters, Live Nation. The Blueprint 3 is the first release off of Roc Nation and is distributed by Atlantic Records for this one project.

Jigga’s new effort has stirred up several meaty issues of discussion since its existence became reality about three months ago. Despite Hov’s possible living-legend status (that depends on whom you’re talking to, of course), the hip-hop audience has been a bit underwhelmed by the constant trendsetter’s last two efforts (2006’s Kingdom Come and 2007’s American Gangster). So some topics have been: What will Jay have to offer on an album so closely tied to a classic? And after all his wealth and success, can he still relate to rap and its audience?

On June 5 of this year, Jay addressed the issues with defiance. That evening saw New York’s Hot 97 DJ Funkmaster Flex introduce the initial single off The Blueprint 3, “D.O.A. (Death of Auto-Tune),” a semiautomatic attack against those who’ve overdosed on T-Pain’s famed vocal-assistance technology. Yet, as polarizing as it was provocative—“D.O.A.” was celebrated in some parts for its brashness and No ID’s rugged, bluesy production—some critics found a reason to accuse Jay of being out of touch or, even worse, a bullying elder statesman. Mr. Carter considers the criticism ludicrous. In his eyes, his attack wasn’t on the youth, but instead on the lack of originality. A veteran with a reputation for quality, he sees hip-hop as a genre coming awfully close to the danger zone. For Hov, it’s simple addition by subtraction: To save the culture, the artists that routinely damage it by simply following trends (Auto-Tune, for instance) must perish.

If it’s an indisputable success, The Blueprint 3 could cement Jay as the first 40-year-old rapper (or almost 40) to truly dominate the music globe—a major feat in a time when hip-hop seems to skew younger than ever. Still, even in that potential triumph lies another in- teresting question: Will Jay-Z become bigger than hip-hop? Scratch that. Considering his staggering résumé as it stands before the re- lease of BP3, is Jay already above rap’s clouds? And, if so, does it make a difference?

After weeks of waiting patiently, and some tennis-match-like back-and-forth scheduling, XXL’s Bonsu Thompson sat down with the tireless businessman and self-proclaimed God MC to talk about the one thing that matters most to his truest fans, the foundation of his entire kingdom: hip-hop. - Matt Barone

Because you had so much time to live with this new album, do you think it’s your most thoughtful body of work?

No, it’s just the approach. I don’t think it changed the music any. You can look at it both ways. The Blueprint was all natu- ral. You could tell the rawness of the spon- taneous thoughts. Or you can have some- one who plans and plots and makes sure ev- erything is the same. Lyor [Cohen, CEO of Warner Music Group] asked me, after he lis- tened to the [new] album, “Did you mess up by putting an album out every year? Should you have taken your time and done it like this one?” And I was like, “No, it’s just process.” I don’t think The Blueprint was bad. But this album has to come out. It’s just really cohe- sive. It feels really good.

What would you say is The Blueprint 3’s grand statement?

I keep using this phrase “new classic,” because it has classic sounds and instrumen- tation, like how music was recorded be- fore. That’s why the whole album cover [fea- tures] white instruments just left in the cor- ner, no color. It’s all about the instruments. It feels classic in that approach, but it’s new subject matter, new flows. It’s not like an Amy Winehouse thing: a take on what was al- ready done. I mean, if you listen to “D.O.A.” just the sax alone, those type of sounds. The subject matter is right now. It’s a hot-button issue right now.

It’s funny that you stress the subject mat- ter being current. One criticism of “D.O.A.” has been that the topic is a year old.

A year past or a year early?

A year too old. Music was being saturated by Auto-Tune the most last year. So were you thinking business first, like, Kanye’s coming out with this 808s & Heartbreak album, so I’m going to hold off on the crit- icism ’til he’s in the clear?

No, that’s not how it happened. It really just happened in the studio. We were just having a discussion about the game and music and where everything is going. So No ID plays this track, and Kanye jumps up. Actually, Kanye gave me the idea. He jumps up and is like, “Man, this is hard. This is against ev- erything.” I don’t know if he knew where I was going to take it, but he sparked the idea. I came back the next day and did the record.

What’s puzzling is that your own buddies, like Kanye and Pharrell, wear the brightest shirts and tightest jeans, but you’re clearly not going at them. You’re going after the cats that are trying to be like them, and not them- selves. Correct?

Yeah, once it becomes...a trend is a trend. I follow trends. I set trends. Now, when a trend becomes a gimmick, it’s time to get rid of it. As far as hip-hop. Like, when they were saying “bling bling” on CNN, it’s time to never say that word again. It was just about the aggression of everything. I saw everyone, ’cause it was successful, following one path. You turn on the radio, and that’s all you hear. I’m not saying I hate T-Pain. What I’m talking about is a trend that’s becoming a gimmick. And if we continue down this path, we’re going to open the door for anoth- er genre of music. Same way when rock was doing hair metal it opened the door even wider for hip-hop to come through and put rock music in trouble for 10 years and more. Right now, there are a lot of in- die bands coming out, which is making ock more exciting: the MGMTs and the Kings of Leons. You keep messing around, making generic music, people are going to start turn- ing off one at a time. And if these guys [keep] making great music, guess what? [Fans are] gonna go to them.

If you look back in the history of music, that’s what happens all the time. I’m just saying, Stay up. Be aware. Be innovative. Let’s keep making this shit interesting. I love Drake. I’m not hating on young people. Like, when people say that, I’m like, What are you talking about? It’s just stupid. I’m not hating on young people. I love Drake. I worked with him on the album. Every time they ask me what I’m listening to, it’s So Far Gone and Kings of Leon. Them two [acts] owe me money. I’m not Bill Russell, [saying] Michael Jordan ain’t shit. I’m saying Lil Wayne and Kanye are like LeBron and Kobe. My job as someone at the forefront of the game is to leave it in a better position than when I came in. Same way that Russell [Simmons] left it to me. ’Cause this thing saved my life. Literally. So I have a responsibility to it karmi- cally. And after that it’s on you. I did my part. I made “D.O.A.” I said it. I made the statement. I made the push. Here, y’all take it from here.

You’ve been getting a lot of heat about your second single “Run This Town,” featuring Kanye and Rihanna. Critics and the blog world have said ’Ye out rapped you.

I think that thing has gone a little too far. I think it’s more about that than the song now. What I’m saying is that’s just life. If [whose verse was better] was the thing, and we based [song quality] on that, after I’ve done 400 songs, I’m sure once the average of who was better on the song weighs out, I’m pretty high. Some nights [L.A. Lakers player] Pau Gasol can score more points than Kobe Bryant—not saying that Kanye is Pau Gasol, ’cause you have to be really clear with that—[but] as long as I’ve been in the game, that’s going to hap- pen, once or twice or even three times.

With a successful Blueprint 3, you could really make it cool to be a 40-year-old rapper. But, playing devil’s advocate, success could also encourage 40-year- old rappers who should hang it up to continue rhyming professionally, because Jay did it. Ever consider that possibility?

No matter what I do, any person that gets to this stage of their life is going to do whatev- er is in their heart. I think people should make music as long as their heart is in it. As long as they’re pushing past the deadline four times and they’re still making more records. Like, there are thousands of boxers that could have retired before they had that fight, Muhammad Ali for one. But you never stop— because of one, your passion or greed, your financial situation, there may be a need, you know? The thing that I can do is stretch the subject matter. Whether Kingdom Come was your favorite album or not, “30 Something,” you have to deal with that subject matter [in that song]. If [the target audience is] 15 to 25, that’s too narrow. What am I going to listen to at 26 and beyond? That’s a quarter of my life. That’s such a small slice of the pie. We have to expand the genre. I would love to listen to hip-hop all day. Of course, now there are other things making their way into my CD changer or iPod, because of the lack of material. It doesn’t speak to me. Everyone is speaking to the kids, thinking that’s the key to success. The sad part of it is that all these [rappers] saying it are 30 years old, at least. Sometimes 35. It’s misleading. It’s that lack of growth that will keep us in a certain place.

Understood, but you’re one of the few rappers whose movement is still followed by artists old and young. How conscious are you of that position?

I think that, as long as the heart is in it. Because even if you miss it, it’s art. Like, Kool Keith, he may not sell any records, ever. But I think his type of art is needed, and there are people who follow his music. I think, when it’s done...Larry Holmes in the ring for mon- ey, that type of thing, then I don’t want to see that. But, like I said, if the genre needs the game to be stretched out, ’cause you have those guys who are 35 years old trying to make the smiley face or whatever, competing with Soulja Boy.

Ha! That’s a Trey Songz record with Soulja Boy on it. It’s hot. They’re clearly aiming at the young kids with that track.

It’s not funny, though. [Laughs] I mean, like, Jim Jones, for example. And I don’t mean this because we never see eye to eye. He made “Na Na Nana Na.” [Laughs] What’s the dif- ference between “Smiley Face” and “Na Na Nana Na”? “Na Na Nana Na Na” could’ve been called “Smiley Face.” [Sings] I got the smiley face, na na nana na na.

You’re hilarious right now. But speaking of Jim Jones, he and cats like The Game stay throwing shots at you, referring to you as old and washed-up. But you’ve always thrived off that type of competition. So, currently in the most comfortable position of your career, how competitive are you?

Not really that competitive, because the competition isn’t based on real competi- tion. I mean, Game, I’m his fuckin’ idol. If you ask him and he’s being truthfully hon- est with you... It’s just based off his insecu- rities and, for the most part, pretension. That type of competition doesn’t do anything for me. It’s almost like someone trying to set you up, and everyone knows they’re trying to set you up. It’s just dumb. It’s not in the spirit of competition, because he’s not competition for me. He’s not. Not then, not now. I can’t say not ever—he’d have to improve consid- erably. Competition for me is Nas, Eminem. Like, Jim Jones? That’s ridiculous to me. So how do I respond to that? I can’t win. If I win, then they’ll be like, “See. Now chill. You’re a fuckin’ bully.” And if he manages to throw a haymaker from the West Coast, then it’s like, “Oooooh.” It’s not even fun. Like, before I did it, because I would diss anybody. Now who has time to do this shit every day? But be- fore, when I was running after the little fat nig- ga from Ma$e’s camp, I was doing anybody. Anybody said anything. If I thought you said something. When I was running in the streets, I wanted all that type of activity. Nobody want- ed nothing. Now everybody’s a tough guy.

You must have heard that Mos Def proposed a rhyme battle for charity. Did you take the challenge seriously, or was it just funny to you?

I thought it was pretty funny. I didn’t know where it was coming from. I mean, I know he hangs out with Dame now. I don’t know what they be talking about. Me and him actually had a pretty cool relationship.

Honestly, he didn’t say it disrespectfully, or even bitterly. It was all love.

But his opinion was, You can’t say that you’re the best and don’t have to defend it. You can have an opinion that you can’t say. Like, What makes your opinion any differ- ent than my opinion? What’s the difference between our opinions? You have your opin- ion: I have mine. But when I say I’m the best, I don’t say that outta my ass. I say that with all my stats behind me. I put that against anybody. I mean anybody. I really believe that...It’s just my belief. I’m not gonna fight Mos Def on what I believe in. I believe in a lot of things. I believe that “SportsCenter” is the best thing on TV. I shouldn’t have to prove it. But I do have these stats to prove it. I’m talking about real run. I’m not talking about years off. I’m talking about straight—boom, boom, boom—back to back. We’re not talking about heritage, acts either. We’re not talking about respect what I’ve done. I’m talking No. 1 [albums] 10 times. The Beatles is the only one [to have more No. 1 albums]. They got 19, and if I get a surge of creativity, I could make nine albums next year.

You gotta get your one weird one out first.

Yeah, that one might miss. But I’ll be fine with that.[Laughs]

Transferring from music, let’s talk more about how you see yourself as a music exec. When you were the president at Def Jam, industry folks would credit the sign- ing of artists like Kanye to Dame, Ne-Yo to [former Def Jam senior VP of A&R] Tina Davis, and Young Jeezy to [former Def Jam executive VP] Shakir Stewart. You’re not given credit for those artists, just smaller ones.

Let’s first clear this thing about Dame and Kanye and all of us. We all had a conversa- tion about Kanye and whether to sign him. No one knew what would come [of him]. Not Dame, not me, not Biggs. So we all sat down and said, “Let’s at least sign him so we can keep the tracks in-house. It’s only good busi- ness.” And Dame said, “We can put Beans and Cam, surround him and make this type of album.” I wasn’t saying, don’t sign Kanye. I was saying, at least let’s keep the beats in-house, if anything. I don’t know. Maybe, maybe not. Let’s keep him here. Dame came up with the idea of surrounding [him with Roc-A-Fella artists] on his album, which nev- er came out, ’cause when the album came in, everyone was like, “Oh, this is good.” He stood on his own. If anything, I should be credited [for wanting to sign him for his tracks]. So even if Dame did sign him, he was gone at that time. I engineered those al- bums. In my years there, even if Tina Davis signed Ne-Yo, she was gone. They were gon- na drop Ne-Yo until Ty Ty [Tyran Smith; for- mer Def Jam VP of A&R] put his hand up and said, “I’ll do that project.” So there’s no Ne- Yo if I’m not there. I scrapped one of his vid- eos that no one knows about, pulled Hype [Williams], pulled June [Ambrose], my styl- ist, made the “So Sick” video, and he’s outta here. Rihanna, there’s just no getting around that. So in three years, I’ve worked on Kanye, Ne-Yo and Rihanna. I don’t even wanna talk about the Fab record that was mine [“Money Goes, Honey Stay (When the Money Goes Remix),” off Fab’s latest LP, Loso’s Way], Jeezy doing “Go Crazy (Remix).” Jeezy was in my office. It doesn’t even make sense to [list] like that, ’cause it’s childish.

You don’t think they would be under as intense scrutiny?

If any other president was sitting at the thing... No one says, “Irv [Gotti] brought Jay in, so Lyor didn’t really do it.” No one picks at anyone else’s [résumé]. Whoever was work- ing Usher, no one says, “LA [Reid] signed that, though.” You’re still working. So wheth- er I signed Kanye or not doesn’t make a difference. I executive produced every one of those albums. Every single one. Even as far as taking “Slow Jamz” and giving it to Twista so Kanye could have two looks at the same time—that was my idea. Or telling him to hold “Jesus Walks” or “Hey Mama,” ’cause they were too big. Or putting T-Pain on “Good Life.” Rihanna, from inception—releasing three albums in a row because I didn’t want her to become the “Pon De Replay” girl. How do you get out from under a big record? Keep giving them big records. So now she’s the “Pon De Replay” girl and the “SOS” girl and the “Unfaithful” girl. Now she’s just an artist. Ne-Yo’s albums, we made those albums. Not Tina Davis. You put those three artists on any other record exec’s résumé in the history of music, and they’re a genius. But because I’m an artist as well, no one gives me that type of [credit]. But that’s cool, ’cause I don’t do I for that.

Interesting perspective.

So if you ask me to grade my performance as the president, I’d say A-plus. No one can bat a 100. It’s impossible. I mean, everyone is looking at my shit. But if we really looked un- der the hood [of] every single [record exec] and the acts they put out in that time, I’d be comparable to anyone.

One of your famous rap lines from your record “What More Can I Say” is “that marketing plan was me.” Do you ever feel that you’re viewed too often as the product surrounded by great business minds—like your former business partner, Dame Dash and current one, John Meneilly—and not respected enough as the brains of your operation?

Well, John Meneilly, I call him Tom Hagen. But I’m definitely Michael Corleone. There’s no question. I am, without sounding like an egomaniac, the boss of this family. John is an incredibly smart guy. So is Damon. But if there was no Damon and there was no John, there would be somebody else. I don’t know if you noticed when it happened but nothing stopped. I gave Damon whatever money for Roc-A-Fella, and I sold it next year for a dif- ferent number. I’ve not been less success- ful without Dame. John Meneilly was my ac- countant that I promoted. Maybe people don’t know that. I have great people around me. I have a great team. I have great help, but, at the end of the day, the final say is mine. How would you compare the two busi- ness minds of Dame Dash and John Meneilly?

I don’t want people to take this wrong, but if that’s my opinion, that’s my opinion. Dame is good at starting something. I don’t know if he gets in his own way at a certain point. You know, the fights you had coming up aren’t the same fights when you’re on a different level. What would happen is, a lot of times, I would have to go fix. You know, it was time- consuming, going back and just doing three meetings, when we could have had one. Nothing got accomplished, because every- one was screaming at each other. It got to a point... John Meneilly is not even the same type of thing.

It’s not. It’s probably not a fair question. Do you attribute the success of your different ventures to you personally growing as a businessman?

I think once you’ve been consistent over a certain amount of time, people start believing you. It’s all part of the same shit. And [it’s] pret- ty much me making decisions to be involved with things I can affect. You know, you get to a point when you start doing too much, it’s not something you’re passionate about, and you start going sideways. I still try to get involved in things that I can affect in this culture. Music, fashion...It’s all part of the same thing, all part of the culture.

- Written by Bonsu Thompson