Is T.I. in the Great MC Debate?

I’m a Tip fan. Been rollin’ with the King since I’m Serious, but unlike most of my favorite rappers, it’s not because of his skills as a writer, it moreso has to do with everything else that surrounds the art of being a dope MC.

For a long time the argument against T.I. has always been, dude can rap, but he never delivers any memorable lines. Problem with that argument is that Tip isn’t a punchline rapper, he’s a songwriter, and a great one at that. The King has hits, plenty of them; songs the girlies like, songs the thugs like, songs white people like, songs that even mothers like. He has a great ear for beats, he knows how to craft catchy, infectious hooks and you can’t fuck with the flow. On top of that, Tip makes some ill albums, (and arguably has a few classics under his belt). This new one, No Mercy, is also surprisingly, pretty dope, despite all the problems leading up to its release.

But in the long run, are all those characteristics enough to put T.I.’s name up there with the greats? Sure he might not deliver any quotables, but in the same respect, he doesn’t exactly have any wack lines, either.

What do ya’ll think? —Jesse Gissen

  • Trizzle

    I think when it’s all said and done he’ll be considered a great rapper. Is he in the argument for Top-5 all-time… um… no! But he’s a great rapper. One of the 5 best from the south, ever… IMO

  • Kyriacos

    Simply put, no. On any argument that may merit this discussion, other emcee’s can top what Tip can put to the table. Not hating, just being impartial.

  • The187Worm

    I like T.I. ………but to me the real King Of The South……..i none other then T-ROCK….dude is a lyrical beast….and im talkin talent alone..not album sales or shit like that

    • East Atlanta

      well king of the south doesn’t say he’s the best. It means he runs the south. And in truth he does. He’s the south’s Jay-z..he’s who got gucci and jeezy to drop it, he’s who got b.o.b. them grammy nominations, and he got out of jail time when he should have gone. That’s a king, like it or not. To make the people around you perform and setting a great example on how to hustle.

    • ATLs.Marc.of.Excellence

      Though I’m Serious is a certifiable classic to my ears and I am a fan of the dude, and T-Rock is a hell of a lyricist (Down For the Cause was my shit). The real King of the South is Scarface. Storyteller, lyricist, legend… all in one.

  • Midas Touch

    He would arguably make a Top10..But wouldn’t go further than that.

    The dude makes good music and his flow his un-fuckwithable with..But he lacks tracks in which he spazzes out from a lyricism point of view..

    He’s not wack..Trap Muzik is proof of that..He’s just too much of a semi-pop star..

    All in all you can’t mention his region(south) without mentioning his name..But overall, he falls short of the ‘great MC debate’

    • ATLs.Marc.of.Excellence

      Me and my brother constantly have a conversation of Tip vs. Wayne. IMO Wayne’s lyrics are catchy, but most of the time (IMO) lack any kinda depth. His flow on the other hand, best there is. T.I.’s flow, while great (9/10) only makes second chair when compared to his own lyrics. In other words:

      Wayne’s Flow >>>>better Then T.I.’s
      T.I.’s lyrics>>> Wayne’s

      Neither of ‘em effin’ wit Scarface tho…LOL

      let the flaming begin…….

  • J

    T.I. is like the kid in school with the potential to make straight A’s but instead does just enough to get by….

    • http://www.eqbeats.com eq productions

      t.i. is one of the best rappers

    • so mad

      I completely agree with J. Maybe if T.I used some more punchlines like that, he’d be great.

  • wilkin

    My question is if those characteristics dont make a great rapper then what does?, I been a T.I. fan since day one and i think he’s one of the illest, he brouhgt Trap music to the forefront and opened the doors for the Jeezy and Gucci Mane and on top of that has been consistent throughout the years. Has also been one of the few rappers to consistently drop platinum albums in this day and age. Sure he lacks punch lines, but so does Tupac and he’s one of the greatest.

    • GIFT

      CO-SIGN.

      PAC WASN’T THAT LYRICALL, AND HE’S ONE OF THE GREATS BECAUSE OF HIS MSG AND HOW HE CONVEYED IT TO THE PEOPLE, AND TIP FALLS RIGHT IN LINE WITH THAT CAUSE. i COULD LIST TONS OF OTHER RAPPERS FROM DIFFERENT PARTS OF THE WORLD THAT TIP WOULD MURDER LYRICALLY RIGHT NOW. EVERY ALBUM HE’S RELEASED ASIDE FROM i’M SERIOUS HAS WENT PLATINUM, AND IT’S STILL HOOD. iT’S STILL STREET. TO DO THAT IN THIS CLIMATE OF THE GAME, HE AND MAYBE 6 OTHER RAPPERS CAN DO THAT. HOW COME NOBODY HAS CHALLENGED HIS THRONE AS THE KING OF THE SOUTH?

  • http://www.media.com Issac Soprano

    Nope, not to say some of his earlier workings arent appreciated, but (Goat), you cannot turn informant and still be king, T.I. aint gotta still be Gangsta but he should stiill keep it real. Honestly I stopped following TIP after the 1st episode of road to redemption where he tricked his homeboy into turning himself into the police station.

    • LdNSE15

      What are you? like 10 or something? Slap yourself. That has got nothing to do with his music..Do you really believe these rappers are out there doing everything they say?

      This is entertainment..It’s no different that when you see Tom Cruise shooting people up in his films.

      Him being a informant or not shouldn’t get in between you appreciating his music unless you’re really young and still believe in Santa and the ‘keep it real’ persona rappers sell.

      Grow up.

  • KAT1

    I definitely feel he should be and he does have quotables “In order to play me baby it’s gonna take a track from God featuring Jesus & Jay-Z. (I”m Serious). ” Verses autobiographical, absolutely classical, last thing I’m worried about is what another rapper do, aint nobody hot as me even if he rap off, blast off and have outstanding qualities (Swagger like us) “Sell a lot of records, I respect & salute that, spitting real life on hot beats, I’m the truth at it” (Swagger Like Us) “To kick it like me no exaggeration necessary, living revolutionary, nothing less than legendary…sh..hereditary, got it from my Dad, flow colder than February with extraordinary swag (Swagger like us). I’m the King of all I survey remember this is TIP’s town (Undertaker). 24′s make then Dubs look like tens (Round Here) My road to redemption has no GPS, so I guess the time must be invested for this to be manifested (Get Back Up) So don’t make it a me & you situation, I’ll have your partner down in ICU visitation (Never Scared) Like hope for the best but I don’t think he’s gonna make not the way he was shivering and shaking on the pavement (Never Scared). There are so many more but I’ll stop here!

  • http://yahoo.com David Champion

    T.I. is one of the greats… The only reason people still question it is because he aint a punchline rapper, yet he is still very lyrical. He has the upmost respect from almost every MC and rapper in the game. He has held his own with the greats on records be it his or features, and he was and is the best southern gangsta rapper of the 21st century.

    • http://www.media.com Isac Again

      Can I just take the time to mention a couple of artist who’d beg to differ Shawty Lo, Lil Flip, Gucci Mane, Mysonne, Rick Ross, Jim Jones, 50 cent,Pimpin Ken, and lets not forget Alfamega, need I say more

      • KAT1

        Yes and that’s because lyrically none of them can compete with this guy and 50, Shawty Lo, Alfamega would just be coming from a place of hate period.

      • KAT1

        And not that sales totally have to do with this argument but none of them lately have did numbers like him and 50 is the only previously that could even join in the numbers debate & Ross is the only one that could even contemplate the lyricist debate & I think he is lyrically superior to them all.

      • KAT1

        Not that numbers matter in this argument totally but he has done better numbers consistently lately than all of them. The only one these cats that could say anything previously about numbers would be 50. Ross is the only one lyrically that could place an argument of which he would not win and lyrically he is superior to everyone you listed.

  • KAT1

    This guy kills every feature and he is constantly compared in conversations with 2 of the greats Jay-Z and Tupac. He has had a consistent progression, constant success and if you listen to I’m serious he predicted where he would be and what he was in the game for. He is a straight lyricist and storyteller, he can switch up his flows and spits perfection in every way. Punch lines , man he evokes emotions, listening to him ignites laughter, tears, thought, insight. I grow up with Hip Hop and yes this guy is one of the greatest.

    • http://yahoo.com David Champion

      I couldnt agree more wit u on that KAT 1 cuz if anybody has any questions on his lyrical skills they should cop the Im Serious Album and his In Da Streetz Mixtapes.

      • http://xxlmag.com Matrix

        “Momma found rocks in ma socks-glocks in my toybox”

  • oskamadison

    TI most definitely should be in the converstaion. Honestly, I can’t say that I know his catalog like the back of my hand but based on all that I’ve heard from him, dude may not have what people traditionally look for as far as punchlines but dude has a few jewels. If Lil’ Wayne’s name is going to be tossed in there, why not Tip?

  • cuzzo5

    punch lines are for comedians, not rappers….unless you’re eminem, but thats a whole nother story….t.i. definitely one of the greats, if for nothing more than quality alone. dude’s delivery, flow, and ear for ridin tracks is un matched…hell yea!!!! and no mercy is PROOF

  • New York State of Mind

    2pac biggie nas jay-z eminem. top 5 no particular order. but after that…i feel t.i. squeezes in the top 20 if not top ten (number 10 that is lol)

  • CREATURE

    no antics, just real good music without all the yellin and theatrics….shit thats a no brainer. and thats without mentioning his accomplishments, top 5 ever for overall package

  • OTLOTLOTL

    no question top three for sure.

    one of the top three dumbest rappers of all time.

  • OB Mcfly

    I feel like T.I. is definitely great, I just think it is in spurts. His flow is unfuggwittable, no doubt one of the best ever flows. But he has not put out a top to bottom classic album for me; theres always fantastic songs and a few that are just okay. Every album is at least good though, and he definitely has a good amount of standouts on every one. There are spurts of greatness that will not go away, and looking at his career from a whole standpoint, it could be said that he is great.

  • rollmodel88

    Im glad that, for the most part, everyone is on the same page with this one. He is good, and does show progression but C.mon son, he’s no king of the South. but to answer the question is he in the debate? Yes.

  • http://yahoo.com David Champion

    I have a question… Why Is He Not King of The South?

  • Simple like ABC, 123

    Ludacris > T.I.

    • http://XXLmag.com Datboi

      Nope….not from what I’ve heard

      No Mercy > Battle of The Sexes

      Paper Trail > Theater Of The Mind

      T.I. vs T.I.P = Release Therapy

      King > Red Light District

      Urban Legend > Chicken & Beer

      Trap Muzik > Word of Mouth

      Im Serious > Back For The First Time

  • raul

    I feel he is good rapper is at least got solid skills in lyrics, and flow a great sonwriter with plenty of classic hits and good albums(not great u cant compare any of his best with jays,Em or Snoops best cmon now) but his lack of quotable and lack of genuine classic albums hold him back top MC debate. Hes not on Jay, Nas , Snoop, Em, Face level I would put him on 50, Fab, Kiss on the MC list just slightly below the greats!!

    • http://XXLmag.com Datboi

      Tip is a FAR better MC than Snoop ever was….no competition

  • stonryboi

    ALL THIS TALK ABOUT TIP GONE MAKE ME ILLEGALLY DOWNLOAD HIS DISCOGTAPHY OF THE INTERNET!!!

    BUR 4REAL I HATE TO START SHIT, BUT IF HE WAS FROM REDHOOK INSTEAD BANKHEAD WOULD WE BE EVEN HAVIN THIS CONVERSATION??

  • http://yahoo.com David Champion

    I disagree about classic albums I think Trap Muzik, Im Serious, Urban Legend, and King are all classic albums… especially in the south.

  • alderman j

    TIP is in that TUPAC catergory, PAC didnt have alot of punchlines either, But the RAW emotion he delivers, his ability to PAINT A PICTURE, and make you feel like you was “WRITE” there. And he aint said too much that i would call wack. And the story telling, is top notch, listen to “dopeman”, “be easy”,

  • David HussleSoft

    I was not aware that T.I. did not have quotables.

    You gotta alligator mouth and humming bird ass
    Your mouth writing checks that your ass can’t cash
    1 45 and I’m out of your weight class wanna survive
    Better scramble like eggs and break-fast

    He will be in the debate in the future I think articles like this are always done prematurely.

  • Mas

    No. And punchlines are not the only memorable type of lines. You can just say some profound shit or something catchy and it’s a memorable line, i.e., scarface: if you make 12, put 7 away live off the 5 and never ever fuck with your safe.

  • http://www.bboycult.com Don mcCaine

    this argument is innane unless you NAME SONGS…

    ‘Watch What You Say’
    ‘Whatever You Like’(it ain’t tricking if you got it has become normal slang)
    ‘You Know What It Is’
    ‘Bring ‘Em Out’
    ‘What You Know’
    ‘Live Your Life’

    you CANNOT have debate on a rapper’s craft w/o NAMING SONGS…he should be in the top50

  • RUS

    I ALWAYS SAID TI IS THE SOUTH TUPAC AND LUDA IS THE SOUTH B.I.G

  • black jesus

    the only thing ti is good at is popping e pills.

  • Nick McGee

    Punchlines don’t make a rapper. Pac wasn’t a punchline rapper, but a great majority of the world considers him the greatest of all time. I don’t know if i would call T.I great, but he’s right there foot in the door, giving handshakes. In other words, he’s close.

  • Dick B.

    I cannot believe people are actually considering T.I. as one of the greatest MCs ever. Most of you cats probably don’t know what MC stands for and will look it up after you read this.

  • Apollo 13

    He’s not a bad rapper, but as a person he’s a dumbass. Therefore doesn’t get my respect, also he’s a hipocrit that ( for me) takes away from his credibility moreso than being an informant. also why doesnt anybody ( but lil flip) mention scarface in the best from the south debate?

    • LdNSE15

      Yeah sure. a dumbass..That’s why he’s a multi-platinum artist, enterpreneur and philanthropist and you’re spending your time expressing your view(s) on a debate regarding him right?!

      Get off your high pedestal..That shit’s played out. We all make mistakes..Some more than others..

      and lol at ‘hypocrite’..Why? because he raps about something and tries to conduct his life the other way around?

      That’s 99.9% of rappers..scrap that..99.9% of the entertainment biz..That’s why it’s called ‘entertainmen’t..it’s not supposed to be more than that.

      Usually, only fools who try to model themselves after rappers are the ones that end up pulling the ‘hypocrite’ card..

      • Apollo13

        Honestly, it doesnt take a degree in brain surgery to become a multi-platinum artist these days, there are many artists that prove my point. And he is a hypocrit, nothing to do with rap, he did a show trying to reform people it was his road to redemption, and as soon as he’s out hes caught with ecstacy, if he was addicted to the shit and relapsed that more understandable, but he’s not he just turned his back on everything he preached. by the way i said he’s a good rapper, just doesnt get my respect, get your shit straight

      • Apollo13

        Honestly, it doesnt take a degree in brain surgery to become a multi-platinum artist these days, there are many artists that prove my point. And he is a hypocrit, nothing to do with rap, he did a show trying to reform people it was his road to redemption, and as soon as he’s out hes caught with ecstacy, if he was addicted to the shit and relapsed that more understandable, but he’s not he just turned his back on everything he preached. by the way i said he’s a good rapper, just doesnt get my respect, get your shit straight

  • http://windowshopz.com Ninjagaiden78

    I don’t know about this cat being considered one of the greats. I don’t think quotables has anything to do with it, but I just don’t think he has any genre defining material. I mean when I look at classics (and I am from the 87/88 era of hiphop), I am looking at Straight Outta Compton, Illmatic, Life is Too Short, albums like that. Songs that are not just hits, but are true classics, and to be honest, I cannot bring myself to say dude is one of the greatest. He is a good MC, but that is just it. I think that his era of hiphop just did not produce MC’s that could release classic material. I think that alot of them dudes just got caught up in the business, the image, and the formula of making music. Yes there is a Kanye West or an Eminem, but for every one of them, there is 100 MC’s that are just that, good.

  • Low Franklin

    Guess jeans fresh white tee and a bubble coat gamble slang blow allday at the corner store. Dope Fresh.

  • MAXIMUS 32

    A lot of the cats on here talkin about punch lines are the reason the game is where it is today. At the end of the day, a hip-hop artist’s music should be about talent, substance, honesty and integrity. A whole bunch of punch lines about nothing and you ain’t livin that lifestyle is why the music is not being appreciated or respected like it was in the past. TI is one of the artists who at least attempts to tell the whole story when it comes to the streets, life etc…instead of half of it. He is one of the only artists that I will pay for their CD because I know the music will have substance and he didn’t just get high one night and make it. If you are Pac or somebody that might work but a lot of today’s artists albums sound like mixtapes. In my estimation, he probably wouldn’t be in the top 5 but I think he would definitely have to be top ten…I can’t name too many dudes ahead of him. Look at his catalog and the quality of the music and his sales…I don’ know the ni**a for sh*t but I respect the music.

  • http://www.bboycult.com Don mcCaine

    Jada got hella punchlines…bet a lot of people have him higher than T.I. on a list…

    TI’s verse on ‘Maybach Music 3′>Jada’s verse

    whateva TI did in personal life ain’t got sh^t to do with this debate…does he make strong enough MUSIC or not to be listed?

    NSYOSTFU

    • yoprince

      ^^^^ c/s

      NSyoSTFU

      to answer your question, yes.

      Great Albums: Trap Muzik (classic), Urban Legend (classic), KING, and No Mercy (may be speaking too soon, but a very pleasing to the ear album right now for me)

      Huge Records: Live Ya Life, Whatever You Like, Swagga Like Us, What U Know, U Don’t Know Me, Big Shit Poppin’, Dead and Gone, Bring Em Out

      Street Records: 24′s, Rubberband Man, Be Easy, Dope Boyz, ASAP, Motivation, Tell Em I Said That, Kingofdasouth, Hotel, Front Back, Ride Wit Me, Told You So, Bankhead, I’m Talkin To You, What Up, What’s Haapnin’, Watch What You Say to Me, Doin’ My Job, Long Live Da Game, Look What I Got, Limelight

      and honestly, I’m not gonna list all the (actually good) tracks for the ladies like ‘Why You Wanna’ and all the poignant tracks like “Live in the Sky.”

      Bonus points for destroying Lil’ Flip, and for making Luda take rap more serious for better or worse, depending on your taste.

      and he ushered in an entire sound, making that ‘trap talk’ a viable commodity.

      • matty21

        ***”what happened”***
        ***”better day”***
        ***”let my beat pound”***
        “i’m like that”
        ***”really living like that”***
        “got your back”
        “i’m back”
        “yeah you know”
        “freeze me verse”
        “pledge allegiance to the swag”
        “look at the grillz verse”**
        “uma do me (remix) verse”
        “we takin’ over verse”
        “Drive slow (remix) verse”
        “round here verse”
        ***”trick daddy-fuckin around verse”***
        “still aint forgave myself”
        “i still love u”
        “be better than me”***
        “my type”
        “TELL EM’ I SAID THAT!” !!!!!!

        ” not to mention: “NO MERCY” and the CLASSICS from da album

        i mean damn, i didnt know we was listing records and verse’s lol, dat just closes da debate, and shows people arent even listening 2 da voice to have anything 2 say..cats arent even listening to da music or listening to lyrics..we wastin our time and our fingers, IF THEY KNEW BETTER THEY’D DO BETTER!

        i thought we already listened to all the records, and already listened to the flow, and then were coming to the debate(which is no debate lol), but i guess not..didnt know we HAD TO list songs, damn, i thought we knew all of these, i was bringing other things 2 da table for people 2 think about..i guess “if they knew better, they’d do better?!?…well there u go, thats all she wrote

        crucial records, along with what u stated, that leave NO DEBATE what so ever

        and da list goes on (believe it or not: there is EVEN MOREE and i could list more 4real)… and on, and on, and on…and TBC

        and it’s majority REAL LIFE IN RHYME, so u cant compare it to shit, nor debate shit… and u cant write for da king, becuz he’s writing his life..quoted from ‘no mercy’

        it’s da K I N G. bitch! no mercy, cant stop bumping da album…a place we HAVN’T HEARD OR SEEN YET, listen up and pay attention..appreciate it and dont debate it!

        T B C . . .

        • matty21

          “ride with me” big one

          put it this way, i could make 3/4/n 5 FULL T.I. greatest hits albums man, 4real..i’ve already made two full..and thats enough said

          ya’ll know what it is, if u dont u aint meant to…

  • eastatlanta shit

    no qoutables try still aint forgave myself da whole song that shit is classic who doesnt know that whole song if u dont u cant possibly be a fan and if u arent y r u even commenting on this

  • teddy

    if u don’t think he is you shouldn’t even be listening to rap music or claim to know anything about it lack of quotables? what kinda stupid shit is that you dont need to be a punchline master to be dope 2pac wasnt a punch line rapper

  • rick

    hahahhahaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhh!!!!!!!!
    NO!

  • LB075

    I’m gonna write this off as promotion for Tip’s new album because this isn’t even a question. Tip is a legend…not just an urban legend, but a music legend!

  • Q461

    honestly I’m tore on this one but co-sign Don McCaine on listing a niggaz songs as part of the arguement should be a must…know the rappers yall

    When its all said and done…. I think dude has an impressive catalog. He’ll go down as a very consistent and great artist…but not as a top 5 nigga. he’s on that second tier imo with Luda, Busta, Meth, Fab, etc

    and I don’t give a fuck that hes from the south, isnt a punchline rapper like Jada, or is a moron as far as his legal issues go, thats NOT the debate…so any fool to use that in the arguement on if TI is a great mc or not is just that, a fool.

    Dope Tip jams:

    Rubberband Man
    Bring Em out
    Why you wanna
    What you know
    Big Shit poppin
    Live your life
    Dead and Gone
    Swagga like us
    Live your life

    I will also argue King is Tip’s magnum opus, def a modern day hip-hop classic.

    2 songs i’m checkin for on his new shit: All she wrote with Em and Castle Walls with Christina….straight fire yall

    • http://www.bboycult.com Don mcCaine

      yoprince…double H 2 u and yours…Q what it do???

      They don’t see you can’t have a music debate W/O MUSIC…the title of this should have been “What Are Your Thoughts On TI’s Career?”.

      TI’s 1 of the only NEW n^ggaz who are worthy (Wayne ain’t new, Drake gotta catch up, Cudi too, and etcetera)…

      N.ame S.ongs Y.o O.r S.hut T.he F.ukk U.p. PUT OTHERS ON IF YOU FEEL THAT WAY.

      90% of the comments on this post don’t say sh^t about TI’s catalog but type their assessment according to his PRESS…

      Prove that you are a true Hip Hop head and not a Mainstream Rap fan that sways accordingly to whatever side the blog GOSSIP is going…

      BELIEVE ME THERE WOULD BE MORE GOLD AND PLATINUM POSTS ON THIS SITE.

  • http://www.xxlmag.com Peterose24

    No. I label TIP as the 50 cent of the south. Great songwriter. Has Hits. But not an all time great lyricist

  • http://twitter.com/lylesk Donnell

    Hip hop quotables are not limited to punchlines, so that argument shouldn’t disqualify T.I. from the conversation. If that’s the case, people like 2Pac and Scarface among others would be out of the conversation as well. Are the following lines not worthy of the debate?

    “Life can change you directions
    Even when you ain’t planned it
    All you can do is handle it
    The worst thing you could do is panic
    Use it to your advantage
    Avoid insanity manage to conquer
    Every obstacle
    Make impossible possible
    Even when winnings illogical
    Losing’s still far from optional

    …..

    If you heart filled with faith then you can’t fear
    Wonder how I’ve faced years and I’m still chilln’
    Easily let go and let God deal with it”

    -T.I.

    ….and that’s a Hip Hop Quotable

    • gmac

      agreed.

  • grim

    shud deffo be there with the greats, time n time agen releases dope tracks… deffo one of the greats

  • http://yahoo.com David Champion

    Well Mr. Dick B. what does T.I. lack to not be called an MC?

  • matty21

    “Sure he might not deliver any quotables”… what? lol, says who? according to who? anybody listening?

    “Is T.I. in the Great MC Debate?” ; hell yea he is, no doubt about it, he just didnt go out in a blaze like others in the convo. (Thank God) ‘bet you’ll appreciate a nigga my type, cuz when i die aint no more niggaz my type’…take death for a real dude (n one of da greatest) to get da appreciation n respect he deserve? probably, but i dunno and it aint about that, but look at history..and he’s one of da great ones dat have made it thru da fire time n time again, i know he’s young, but once again: look at history and da greats in all forms of music and how young they went out..ONE of da things that makes pac’s legacy so crazy, all dat went on, all he did; he was only 25! where was he going? i think we know that, but just for thought: look at all your greatest artists in history(in all music): tragedies, down-falls, crucified by mass media n groups of people at some point, early deaths…tip is a great one like da others(talent, loyal fans/followers,ambition to be great, humbleness,work ethic, INNOVATION, GAME CHANGING, FREEDOM AS AN ARTIST, LIFE IN ART) and for some reason seems to have da strength and resiliance to make it through all da bullshit and da limelight, even if it take stepping back from da game for a while n getting out of music for a little as far as the spotlight goes in da future; dats what makes him even more special, not just cuz he great, and great aint even a question lol, dis-agree heavily with most of da post…IF TIP AINT ONE OF DA GREATS AND IN DA DEBATE, DEN WHO IS? anyone who is up on da game n has been for a long time, any artist u would put in your PERSONAL TOP 5, put tip against any of dem; and da overall debate of top MCs EVER, da names on dat list: put tip n what he stands for up against ANY of dem, any u can think of n look what tip has done, what u see? …and u can compare n debate all day, u can put tip up against any1 in history n present time, n every1 has their PERSONAL top 5 or PERSONAL favorite artist, yea i could debate with anybody and y he is da best is right in front of u…but it aint even about all dat, all da competition aint as relevant, 15million n ^ record sales, da movies, da buisness; ok all true..but u could say ‘like pac’: look at da impact, look at da REALNESS to it, look at da peoples lives he impacts everyday, da people he’s helped, da impact n relatability his art has, da respect he gets n has earned..look at how he keeps pushing thru adversity n thru da fire..setting examples to never give up; keep pushing NO MATTER WHAT, follow your dreams, stand for what u believe in, dont let some1 else hold u down or tell u what u are.. he lives that shit, fuck some music n entertainment, tip lives dat shit everyday 4real, LIVING da example and in turn making him a role model no matter what mistakes he makes, becuz da model and da example is: keep going no matter what, what else is there in dis hard life besides that? tip LIVES that… no matter how big he gets, look how he stays grounded and stays real, look how he keeps himself with da people, represents da people, represents da struggle n da pain in da world, helps da suffering in da world, cares about da struggle and da pain in da world, everyday along with dealing with his own..look at all dat shit, look at da REAL SHIT, dat shit dat really matter..den go listen to his talent n skillls on da mic, listen to his flow; fast n slow, different n somethin new everytime, representing da struggle n HIS LIFE..look at his impact alone on da south, how he came with ‘trapmuzik’ n COMPLETLY CHANGED DA FACE OF DA GAME, look how many copied what he did n STILL try n talk da same game…look how he brought DOPE BOYZ n hardcore lyrics to RADIO and POP CHARTS, he didnt have to go commercial to ‘go commercial’ and he stayed real n kept it real throughout..he stayed himself, didnt have to change except for da better, or fake anything, n will continue to do so..look at his care for kids and helping them not take da same path he took or make da same mistakes he made, and WE AS PEOPLE MAKE EVERYDAY, at least he tries to help n make a difference..his ATTEMPT at being a role model, when a role model he is not supposed to be, his attempts to change n be a better person n show YOUNG cats there is other ways..i mean, da shit goes on for days, look at da whole picture, and maybe listen to an album? lol.. n guess it depends on what u like n how u feel about life n art.. put him up against ANY artist in your top 5 and tell me what u see? and all things i just said, his freedom and innovation, make da king a REAL ARTIST, like we dont see as much of 2day with dat talent level n platform…

    “Or does his lack of hip-hop quotables dismiss him from the conversation…” Once again: WHAT? we’re talkin “quotables” here? from da king? damn

    “but he never delivers any memorable lines. Problem with that argument is that Tip isn’t a punchline rapper” …. since when does being a punchline rapper make u a great artist or even really matter? would u rather hear: “my skin is white, da same color as milk” “i’m so NY like da folks who make playstation” “i aint about no Britney Spears, dat means im about no BS” “i aint fat joe, but i can make em’ LEAN BACKK” “swimming in da money, come n find me: NEMO” “if i was at da club, u know i balled: KEMO” “got me bringing guns to work: GILBERT ARENAS” “pussy ass nigga i dont want your GONNARHEA” ANY PUNCHLINE U CAN POSSIBLY THINK OF lol, n dat shits all cool dont get me wrong, i like it n it’s hot when it’s good n real slick n thought out, but what REALLY means something? and what stands da test of time and isnt just hot? …OR would u rather hear lyrics about REAL LIFE and da struggle we go through everyday as people; lyrics about a person’s life 4real, lyrics dat can be related to in some way, becuz their believable and people really go thru it everyday..lyrics dat mean something, lyrics that help people, lyrics that strike a real emotion, get people through things in life, make u laugh, make u cry, lyrics u can party to also, etc. etc… “I give a fuck about da Feds investigation on me, I dont care that dey at my shows n dey waitin on me” -theres a “quoteable” for ya ass lol… i aint going to sit here n quote shit all day, people know what i’m talkin about, dat real shit..and who said tip dont come with sick punchlines in songs n have fun with it anyway? who said dis shit lol? once again, i aint going to sit here n quote, go listen to da music n den come talk 2 me, people aint speaking or addressing TRUTHS… but between da 2 types, i know which one I would pick..i know which lyrics stand da test of time and have an impact FOREVER, n which ones r just COOL..

    i’ve been following dis hip-hop game alone for 10-15 years, as a kid, and music overall for years..i know greatness when i see it..and to throw it out there: in all da years i’ve been a fan of dis game and following it, i’ve never came across an artist that i followed like tip; an artist dat just kept coming with it, has da consistency, brings top quality material everytime..he keeps suprizing even a large-scale fan like me, he keeps bringing shit to another level and taking it somewhere we’ve NEVER heard or seen before each time, keeps branching out, keeps comin with hits n timeless shit through ALL NO MATTER WHAT..and keeps it real and stays in da streets becuz it’s just who he is, no matter how big or how much $$$.. an artist that after 10years in da game, i still find myself bumping so many of their old songs..an artist dat i’m feelin everything he’s doing as far as entertainment, liking da movies n all, all he stands for..not losing interest, never came across an artist dat caught my ear n eye like DA KING did.. never seen an artist like tip overall, yea, i just see greatness in front of us, n we should appreciate it not debate it … if dey was supposed to know, dey would know

  • gmac

    dude can rap.

  • http://MYSPACE.COM HELTAH SINSAY

    t.i is not memorable! he’s in that same catagory as a Nelly,or a Young jeezy! now if you mention REDMAN or a JOEL Otiz then the arguement is not an arguement, its more of a cant beleave you disagree, feel me! of course theres going to be t.i fans out there who feel he made some major impact on there souls, witch is utterly imposible, I have yet to hear a song like “unconditonal love” from TUPAC or Even a “start from scratch” song like The GAME, I just never felt t.i on any level but the level of him getting his money! successfull yes! legendary NO!

  • PhatMyx

    The top 10 is heavily contested as it is and i don’t think Tip makes the grade. He continues to have a lot of influence in the game, but i think most of it comes from the sale’s he’s getting.
    On the other hand Hip Hop does not have a lot of hot MC’s in the mainstream now, guys who were not considered top 10 during the nineties could easily out-do most of the guys out right now.

    Im one of those people who believe there has been a decline in the quality of MC,ing over the years and thats why we are having this debate.

    As for King of the South, btwn Ludacris and Wayne.

    • LdNSE15

      Funnily, he is better than both.

      They can’t even see him in substance, depth, flow, quality and consistency.

  • MFRdoit

    Castle Walls off the new No Mercy album has a chance to go as big as Love the Way You Lie.
    It’s a great hook with christina aguilera.
    Not to mention the verses are pure heart, spirit, and emotion. TIP puts everything into this, just as Eminem did.
    He’s no doubt apart of the great MC debate.

  • http://www.bboycult.com Don mcCaine

    CHEA!

    …matty21 trying to get his degree in Hip Hop 101…but some songs named and linx would shorten your Nobel novels fam…

    some of y’all are dropping songs I forgot about…

    @ PhatMyx

    It never said Top 10, but should he be considered in the great MC debate…BIG difference yo…

    * dusts off ‘Trap Muzik’ *

    * guts swisha *

  • Midas Touch

    ”Jesus youngest disciple
    Tell the judge if he throwed the book at me
    Make it the bible
    Start calling myself the king
    For lack of a better title”

    ”Everybody’s standing and waiting chatting and hating
    Gospels say they should forgive me
    They’d rather hand me to satan
    Blatant displays the day of hypocrisy
    Boy you got to be kidding
    Could it be possibly
    the second coming of Pac is me?”

    ^T.I.

    From No Mercy ft The Dream.

  • bullets

    I LIKE TI BUT HONESTLY I DONT PUT ANY NEW RAPPER OUTSIDE OF EMINEM AND KANYE WEST IN ANY KIND OF GREATNESS CATEGORY AS THE PRODCUTION AND MELODIES EVOLVE LYRICS DETERIORATE AND I CAN NEVER COMPARE THIS GENERATION TO MINES ON THAT NOTE…..

  • bullets

    TIP CAN RAP BUT THE GREATEST HELL NO !! HE DIDNT INVENT ANYTHING OR BRING ANYTHING TO THE FORE FRONT ….LYRICALLY I THINK PEOPLE WERE MORE IMPRESSED THAT A SOUTHERN RAPPER SOUNDED INTELLIGENT RATHER THAN HIM ACTUALLY BEING THAT GOOD HE HAS NO CLASSIC ALBUMS HIS BEST LP WAS A POP HIT AND TI IS REALLY FUCKING COMMERCIAL LIKE CHEEZY ALMOST LIKE 50 CENT W/ STRAIGHT UP RADIO FORMULA’S EVEN WHEN JAYZ MAKES POP-ISH SONGS HE’S CREATIVE WITH IT TI IS PREDICTABLE

  • EB1611

    After it is all said and done, T.I. is one of the best rappers of todays age of Hip-Hip. That being said, I don’t think I would ever put him on the top 5 MC’s to ever hold the mic. I don’t even think I would put him on the top 5 MC’s of the decade. He would probably be number 5 of all time Southern rappers. He will never be better than Outkast, UGK, Scarface, or Ludacris. That is my opinion.

  • keith

    TIP is mos def in the top 5. because KRSONE IS STILL #1, EM is two, everybody else is 3,4,5. but TIP is in the top 5

  • “TN”

    T.I. is to me the new Pac, this shit bout punchline in shit dont matter when it close to leave you mark on the game,Pac was about emotion,passion, and making you think about what here said in delivering his massage, that punchline shit cute but most of the time it dont mean shit, Pac is mention in G.O.A.T and based on his facts TIP should 2

  • http://yahoo.com David Champion

    Rappin for the hell of it hella rich never have to sell a brick again must i tell a bitch again the bullshit im addressin check im on sum next level shit NEVER BEEN FUCKED IN THE GAME IM SELABIT!!! T.I. Papertrail Im Illy… But he has no punchlines right oh and i forgaot this one You got a alligator mouth an a humminbird ass ya mouth rightin checks that ya ass cant cash 145 an im outta your wait class wanna survive betta scramble like eggs and BREAKFAST T.I. Urban Legend Stand Up… But he has no punchlines… realy? GTFOH… n dont get me strted on how he anialated Lil Flip on 99 problems lil flip aint one.

  • Shawty J

    T.I.’s in my top ten. I consider him a “Jack Of All Trades, Master of None”, he doesn’t specialize any particular area, though he is skilled in all areas. I’d at least consider him great compared to most of the hip-hop artist now.

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  • therealjay

    hell yeah !!!!!!!! tip spittin’ like a mufucka. he spittin’ harder than 95% of the game. and the best in the south since scarface. definitely top 3.

  • T LEE

    Might not have quotable lines but his “hooks and choruses are”

  • P. Harris

    naw, he’s not top 5 and won’t be until he drops some lines that hip hop heads respect. He’s got the streets, he’s got the ladies, he’s got the stans, but he lacks to wordplay to draw in the halfway hip hop heads who need that punchline or that quotable. All these albums and you can’t rub together two punchlines or quotables that make you remember them…

    He’s not the Jay-Z of the south… Best Rapper out of the south is Andre 3k… T.I. is in top 5 in the south… but that’s it…

    1. 3 Stax
    2. Scarface
    3. Bun B
    4. TI
    5. Ross

  • caino

    l have never gotten into TI , never got an album , nuthing. He just doesnt interest me . So he is no where near my top 5 DOA.

  • Dub

    Dude’s a great rapper, prolly one of the most versatile in the game. TI at his best is I’m Serious-Trap Muzik though, Doin My Job, Better than Me, Be Easy, 24′s, Crown Royale, Still Ain’t Forgave Myself, Dopeboyz, etc. that’s when he was goin the hardest

  • bulelani

    t.i is the best.t.i says,

    i lost my daughter and my patner in the same year,some how i rise above my problems and remain here.and i hope the picture paints it clear,if your herat is filled with faith then you cant fear.

    if those aint some best lines,then i dont know what is

  • http://xxl harlemslastking

    i agree with kat1. im from newyork where word play rules. TI is a GREAT word spitter and can hold hes omn with anybody. i met him back stage at a free show that that football player gave for his town. and i remember how a 5’6 dude stood 6’5! everything about him said GREATNESS. that day i became a true fan. his style was crazy without trying. and the funny part about that nite he was just being like a guy i met on the streets. no ego or nothing. and his stage show was great. i remember telling people that he sounded just like his records. i understood everyword that came out of his mouth. i’ve been to alot of shows. and theres two other rappers who stage show that i talked about for years. the other two was krs-1 and run from run-dmc. now thats great company. ti is one of the greatest of all times. 20yrs from now when they do the hiphop fall of hame? he will be in there.

  • David Champion

    I have one question that will end this debate… Who was the BEST SOUTHERN GANGSTA RAPPER/MC in the 21st century? This includes lyrics, hits, record sales, influence, longjevity, and impact. BTW if anybody says Lil Wayne KILL YOSELF!!!!

  • David Champion

    Its easily T.I.

    7 albums
    5 platinum
    4 multiplatinum/ 1 gold
    3 grammy’s
    7 mixtapes
    Highly respected by every southern legend, and backed by scarface as being the KING OF THE SOUTH.
    Won every beef he ever had. (Ludacris was not a real BEEF)
    Has been in the game for 11 years.
    Has one of the deadliest flows ever, and knows when to use punchlines.
    HANDS DOWN the most talented and successful southern gangsta rapper of the 21st century!!!.