Vanilla Ice > Than Your Least Favorite Rapper – Think About It

Before I even start this one I gotta say, just hear me out.

Okay, week before last my man Jesse did a post called “Queen Reigns Supreme,” which broke down a few of the hip-hop records that sampled the world-renowned rock group. One of songs mentioned was Vanilla Ice’s 1990 mega-hit “Ice Ice Baby,” which borrowed the baseline from Queen’s “Under Pressure.”

Call it curiosity or nostalgia but I clicked play on the “Ice Ice Baby” video, and let the song play in the background while reading through the post. It’s been years since I actually listened to the record (front if you want we all did at some point) but as I heard Ice droppin’ his verses a thought crossed my mind: “You know what; this record isn’t that bad lyrically for the time?”

Now, before y’all start throwing digital stones at just the mere thought of someone giving Vanilla Ice props, let me continue. I’m not saying he’s anyone’s G.O.A.T., but as for as 1990 era raps go, Vanilla (or his ghostwriter) held his own, IMHO.

“All right stop, collaborate and listen
Ice is back with my brand new invention
Something, grabs a hold of me tightly
Flow like a harpoon daily and nightly
Will it ever stop? Yo, I don’t know
Turn off the lights, and I’ll glow
To the extreme I rock a mic like a vandal
Light up a stage and wax a chump like a candle”

That’s far from lyrical perfection, but if LL Cool J had spit those same lyrics around the same time on a record like “Jingling Baby” or “Eat ‘Em Up L Chill,” would there be an issue?

Regardless of whether he made one of the biggest hip-hop records of all time; the problem most people have with Vanilla Ice is what he represented. Or, better yet, how he tried to represent. The fake “hood” background, baggy Hammer pants, and gelled flattop with the parts on the side tryna wild out where what folks hated on. The song, though, was an undeniable hit. (17 million copies sold!!!)

The more I thought about it, the more I wondered if Vanilla Ice got a raw deal. Sure, Eminem would rap circles around his (and any other MC’s) ass on bad day; but it’s unfair to compare a industry-fabricated pop figure like that to some of rap’s greats. That’s when I started to wonder if Ice and his 20-year-old verses from “Ice Ice Baby” could hold up against some of today’s most hated on rappers and their biggest hits. The Soulja Boys, Waka Flocka Flames and Shawty Los of the rap world.

So here are a few choice bars from the aforementioned rappers that I matched up against Vanilla Ice’s rhymes to see whose actually look better on paper.

RD: 1

Soulja Boy, “Crank That (Soulja Boy)”

“Soulja Boy off in this hoe
Watch me lean and watch me rock
Super man dat hoe
Then watch me crank dat Robocop
Super fresh, now watch me jock
Jocking on them haterz mayn
When I do dat Soulja Boy
I lean to the left and crank dat thang
(Now yuuuah)”

Vanilla Ice, “Ice Ice Baby”

“(Dance) Go rush to the speaker that booms
I’m killing your brain like a poisonous mushroom
(Deadly) When I play a dope melody
Anything less than the best is a felony
Love it or leave it you better gain weight
You better hit bull’s eye the kid don’t play
If there was a problem, yo, I’ll solve it
Check out the hook while my DJ revolves it”

RD: 2

Waka Flocka Flame, “O Let’s Do It”

“One shot, man down
His brains, go ka-pow
Ow, that shit hurt
So don’t fuck around
But that happen often off in Riverdale, Georgia
You gon’ pay the life you live off in Riverdale, Georgia
They gon’ lay yo ass out rock you to sleep like a baby
Brick Squad, shawty, in the ’hood we got them babies
Ever since they killed my nigga Travis start poppin’ pills and actin’ crazy
Ever since they killed my nigga Travis start poppin’ pills and actin’ crazy”

Vanilla Ice, “Ice Ice Baby”

“Girls were hot wearing less than bikinis
Rockman lovers driving Lamborghinis
(Jealous) ‘Cause I’m out getting mine
Shay with a gauge and Vanilla with a nine
(Ready) For the chumps on the wall
The chumps acting ill because they’re full of eight balls
Gunshots rang out like a bell
I grabbed my nine all I heard was shells
(Falling) On the concrete real fast
Jumped in my car, slammed on the gas
Bumper to bumper the avenue’s packed
I’m trying to get away before the jackers jack
(Police on the scene) You know what I mean
They passed me up, confronted all the dope fiends
If there was a problem, yo, I’ll solve it
Check out the hook while my DJ revolves it”

RD: 3

Shawty Lo, “Dey Know”

“Shawty Lo — I got flavor
Plus you know, the kid got paper
Like 40, don’t “Save Her”
Bankhead — been pullin capers!
The way you drop woulda thought I had a taser
Call me street, like the razor
Shawty Lo, A-T-L, I’m the MAYOR
Street nigga but my gear be tailored
Every now and then, Shawty might rock gators
Me and that kush — I got acres
Yeahhhhhhh! No more nosey-ass neighbors
Big up — to all my haters!”

Vanilla Ice, “Ice Ice Baby”

“Take heed ’cause I’m a lyrical (Poet)
Miami’s on the scene just in case you didn’t (Know it)
My town that created all the bass sound
Enough to shake, kick holes in the ground
‘Cause my style’s like a chemical (Spill)
Feasible rhymes that you can vision and (Feel)
Conducted and formed
This is a hell of a concept
We make it hype and you want to step (With this)
Shay plays on the fade slice like a ninja
Cut like a razor blade so fast other DJs say, (Damn)
If my rhyme was a drug I’d sell it by the gram
Keep my composure when it’s time to get loose
Magnetized by the mic while I kick my juice
If there was a problem, yo, I’ll solve it
Check out the hook while Shay revolves it”

So there you have it, the tale of the tape. Based on the rhymes; do you agree that Vanilla Ice might possibly be better than your least favorite rapper? —Anslem Samuel

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  • HellNaw

    Not too sure if it is a reflection of Mr Ice advance lyrical word-play or the lowest level of porch-monkey rap.Still thinking…

    • ace

      i think its a reflection of the lowest level of porch -monkey rap today. ice’s lyrics are still basic, if that, but these guys today really dont say anything.

  • jonathan climax


  • caino

    l must admit when l hear the under pressure on the radio , l get gutted when it isnt the Vanilla Ice Version! lol

    but yeah his verses killed it against SB, Waka & Shawty Lo !

  • pillowhumper

    LMFAO— ahhhh—Shay with a gauge and Vanilla with a nine. All these “rappers” are pretty weak though. Why would XXL want us to read about wack rappers? I’m going back to bed…

  • Dante

    “if LL Cool J had spit those same lyrics around the same time on a record like “Jingling Baby” or “Eat ‘Em Up L Chill,” would there be an issue?”


    • Curtis75Black

      Damn Straight. Nice try throwing LL under the bus though.

      • Anslem

        Wasn’t tryna throw LL under no bus. Just IMHO I could easily have heard those same bars come out of L’s mouth at that same era in a battle rap.

  • Dub

    This is a terrible idea for an article, who gives a damn about who the worst rapper is, especially a muffucka from 20 yrs ago. SMDH, XXL yall slippin…

  • HU

    A good point to take from this articles is that rap has devolved to a lower level than ever thought imaginable. People clown Vanilla Ice and others throughout the years such as Master P and many on the No Limit roster but all of that looks like classic material compared to Soulja Boy, Wacka, Boosie, etc. Shit has gotten truly and literally retarded and these young black kids are modeling themselves after it.

  • Q461

    not for nothin… some of Vanilla Ice’s bars are defintely tighter ( for the time period) than Soulja Boy’s in Crank that and defintely bullshit ass no lyric Waka Flocka Flame ass nigga.

    However all these tracks are still corny as fuck. Did yall know he was throwin a dart at Kid N Play on that track?

    “Love it or leave it you better gain weight
    You better hit bull’s eye the kid don’t play”

  • BeerGangsta

    You talking about super wack!! This Honkey is sorry azz shit. Lied said that you know Luke. That was a lie. Suga threaten ice. Made him sign his contract over to him. Fake wont’ed be black.

  • i’m at work and bored

    i agree. hip hop is so bad now, VI is actually better than 90% of rappers that are out now


    Vanilla Ice is hangin with Insane Clown Posse now hahahaahaha, if you are a washed up has been join ICP they have room for ya with all the other rap rejects.

  • yoprince

    Ever since they killed my nigga Travis start poppin’ pills and actin’ crazy >>>

    Me and that kush — I got acres
    Yeahhhhhhh! No more nosey-ass neighbors
    Big up — to all my haters!” >>>

  • El Tico Loco

    Maybe they should all get a ghostwriter too. But I agree with the point being mad. Hey at least back then being wack was just that wack and treated as such, now money justifies your wackness so the grade gets a hell of a curve.

  • Sha

    FlameThrower 5.0….

    I’m one of the dudes that actually believed (and still believes) that the Vanilla Ices and the Soulja Boys are needed in hip-hop. THEY ARE ABSOLUTELY NEEDED.

    Think about it…..

    I personally think if you don’t have a Vanilla Ice, you don’t have Eminem. He was a trail-blazer in his own way. If he didn’t come out and show his complete wackness, Eminem probably would have been marketed solely based upon his color. Don’t get it twisted… Eminem was marketed because of his color, but if it weren’t for Vanilla Ice, he wouldn’t have a blue-print on how NOT to be in the rap game.

    Soulja boy too. He serves his purpose. Lyrically, this kid is definitely the most wack in the game. But hip-hop needs him. Without him, some other more talented emcee will come into the game with diminished skills.

    I thank all no talent rappers…. Without them we wouldn’t have REAL HIP-HOP.

    • El Tico Loco

      If there weren’t so many no talent rappers clogging the lanes you might have a point, but for them to be poppin up all over the place and then to be become the standard in the eyes of the industry? All hip hop will fade away like the fad it was expected to be in the first place.

  • kedordu


  • stuckfresh

    Your right!


    I agree totally! and it’s not just the bad rappers, the good rappers were better then also. the game was better as a whole, because it was harder to get into the game at that time! it’s like the nba age restriction…it sucks for the young dudes, and it’s borderline racist, but it makes the product better. that’s my point about young dudes talking about ross is a lyricist and that TD is a classic. if this were 1992…’96 even, ross would be below avg. MASE HAD BETTER BARS THAN ROSS! AND REALER MATERIAL. and b4 anyone says that i’m a 50 stan…he’s no lyricist either!

    put it this way…some of the biggest artists in the game r cats that came into the game in the early ’90s! THAT’S CRAZY! could u imagine kool moe d still being relevant in ’96. even legends like kool g rap and rakim, were rendered non relevant by the cats that came after them. these days, nas, dre 3000, face, etc. are still in the top 10…the biggest album that everyone is waiting for right now is DETOX! these young cats are not strong enough lyrically to push the old dudes out of the way. and it’s funny that alot of these new cats get so excited about being #1 in an era where rap is less culturally relevant than it has ever been! that’s like bragging about being the best mechanic on the titanic. I’ll take it back to Rick Ross…GRODT outsold all of his albums combined! yet he thinks that he’s a bigger artist than 50….these new niggas r clowns!

    • yoprince

      i can guarantee you that DETOX is NOT the most highly anticipated album among 15 – 19 year old rap fans. they could care less about that.

      similarly, old dudes still got rakim, g rap, and kane in their top 10. they could care less about ross, wayne, jeezy, or kanye.

      the truth is time moves on. when my dad was banging motown, his dad was tapping his foot under the table but out loud he was saying “turn that mess off, put on this duke ellington.”

      rap is as ‘culturally relevant’ as it’s ever been. just b/c you don’t like the mainstream tilt of it, doesn’t mean it’s not ‘culturally relevant.’ it’s an international phenomenon and commodity and is the most prevalent form of purely American music in this day and age.

      • DETROIT

        DOG, Rap sales are down now, which is why rappers/labels r getting dropped from majors like crazy! NO RAPPER IS DOING SUSAN BOYLE #S! Why do you think EVERY rapper gets pushed back now. even in ’97 master p was puttin out like 2 albums per month and going plat every time! and as far as international appeal…name 1 rapper that’s out now that’s bigger than wu tang was internationally. the biggest rappers internationally r the old cats. you ain’t NEVER seen jeezy in africa or japan. (and i luv jeezy) matter of fact, break dancing and b boy ing is waaaaaaaay bigger than any of these new phenomenons internationally EVEN TODAY! google it!

        but what up doe prince…been a while.

        • DETROIT

          LASTLY, then imma leave it alone, remember the up in smoke tour, fresh fest, etc…rappers used to sell out arenas all over the country. Last year the BP3 tour got canceled for lack of sales. rick ross himself said that he has NEVER headlined in an arena. rappers have to add r and b acts now to even have a chance of selling out a big show. the game is bleeding right now dawg!

        • yoprince

          yea, what up D. you been MIA.

          i hear you on sales. but the thing is young consumers still dig the music. they just have multiple other avenues of procuring it. susan boyle sold records to grandmas and american idol fans. that demographic still buys CD’s.

          and i’ll tell you this. i was in S. Africa earlier this year on vacation. i hit up Cape Town and Johannesburg, and i visited the townships. the kids there asked me where i was from. i told ‘em ATL. guess who they asked me about? JEEZY. no BS. now, i don’t know if he’s doing shows there or not. but i know hip-hop is still big even if the presentation and the consumption has shifted.

          my main point in relation to this post is this: it doesn’t take great rappers to make great songs. and sub-par rappers have been making great records since the inception of this rap biz. SB, WAKA have made some hot records. the radio caters to that.

          ross my not sell much but he’s still feeling himself b/c he’s using a different barometer to measure his success. i don’t knock him for that and more artists are or better start thinking that way too.

        • $yk

          “my main point in relation to this post is this: it doesn’t take great rappers to make great songs. and sub-par rappers have been making great records since the inception of this rap biz. SB, WAKA have made some hot records. the radio caters to that.”

          ^ undeniable truth

          AND realistically the problem. We have grown complacent with mediocre and sub-standard music. We’re even calling newly released music classic.

          The world is listening and checking for us. What are we giving/showing them? What I said is deeper than rap.

          Waka threw out a lot of duds b4 ‘Paint’. He’s the anti-Drake, so if he plays his position right, he can make something happen, chicks love them lite-skinded dudes. Plies has a catalog to eat for years, but his mainstream appeal is dying. T-Pain the same. It happens to every single artist, none the magnitude of MJ (quick example so put the darts down fellas).

          Cats are happy with disposable music. Again peep that ‘Boondocks’ episode from last nite, listen to what Thugnificent is saying. You appreciate what dudes like NORE & Cam have done, achieve longevity w/o being superiorly mainstream.

          Many people have had hits, but you only remember the artists with charisma, talent, and longevity, unless a tragic incident occurred that would jar your memory.

          Cats should be thinking about writing history, instead of recording events.

        • DETROIT

          “ross my not sell much but he’s still feeling himself b/c he’s using a different barometer to measure his success”

          so why did he hook up with puffy? he specifically said that it was to broaden his appeal.

          i feel your point, but my point is that most rappers these days are not complete artists. therefore they have huge holes in their game, which is why they r less marketable. which rapper out now has a successful clothing line?

          the most complete artists out right now also happen to be the most successful. why do you think kanye west is killin shit? even the black eyed peas! wayne’s shit got leaked and still sold 3 mil. these new rappers r lacking dude, and the numbers show it. Kanye is selling out stadiums while these niggas can barely sell out clubs. and if you look at his good music imprint…he’s adding more artists to his label as opposed to just rap niggas.


    I LIKE WAKA THO, but i do acknowledge the decline! waka now = redman/busta rhymes back in my day….


    • El Tico Loco


      Still can’t


    Salutes to Sha

    He is so right. soulja boy is defintely needed. I mean that song wasn’t that lyrical BUT the song did start a dance crave. It did rasise the bar for other artist. It made us look at lyrics. That kinda rap motivates hip hop heads. Those artist don’t do it for lyrics. They make songs. They have flow. They make you dance.

    Its like, if hip hop was a class, you will have your smart students and you will have your slow kids. Everybody has to turn in a paper. Poetry is about an artist reaching HIS level. NOT your level. As fans, you have to appreciate and observe the artist idea. His level. HIs art. HIS music.

    That type of music serves a purpose. Vanilla ice served a purpose.

    The problem is that people want things to be one way. They judge and down an artist call these artist KOONS and bad names, but they are only destroying hip hop as a whole.


      again, i respect your opinion, and i never call any black man a coon, lol.

      but check this out bro…soulja boy is needed in the game as a PRODUCER! i hate to keep harpin on the old school…but look at dre. he is a production prodigy that can’t rap a lick, so what did they do, they had cube and ren write his rhymes, and now he’s a legend.

      my point is that he was groomed for success. the problem SB is having is that he wasn’t groomed for success. he is a very raw talent, but he’s learning on the job, as opposed to a cat like kanye west who had to pay his dues first.

      KRS-1 once said that in order to even get into a studio in his day, you had to first be the best on your stoop, then the best on your block, then the best in your hood/burrough. THAT’S GROOMING. it would be a shame if soulja boy overstays his welcome and gets labeled/forced out the game b4 he even reaches his full potential!

      even kobe bryant had to sit on the bench first! through the internet and things of that nature, these dudes are jumping right into the game, thus making the game as a whole weaker.

    • El Tico Loco

      I don’t think anybody wants things to be one way, they want things to get better. You can’t possibly say the game as an art or industry has improved; for one the skills have diminished and (for those that care) even the sales have diminished. For the old guard to step aside you gotta outrap the old guard, and there’s some young cats that can rhyme circles around some of my favorites but don’t get to see the limelight because of the wack ones that are clogging the lanes with garbage and the only issue here is the lack of equal exposure.

  • oskamadison

    Think about this for a second: non-lyrical cats have been around damn near as long as Hip-Hop itself. Take a cat like Greg Nice. Any one of his verses on paper reads like a dusted Dr. Seuss book but what got him over was his charisma on the mic. Who the hell else can get away with a classic faux pas like “Dizzy Gillespie plays the sax”? It was the trumpet but we all gave him a pass.
    Better yet, there’s Milk Dee. “Top Billin’” is one of the most beloved joints in Hip-Hop, arguably the most sampled joint other than “La-Di-Da-Di”. “That’s how it is/you can ask Giz/I stole your girl while you were in prison/Jail, for MC assault/You was jealous, it’s all your fault…” Not hardly Masterpiece Theatre but again, it’s the charisma, folks. Cats nowadays not only say wack shit, they have no style AND their beats are wack. I must agree that back in ’90, I thought Vanilla Wafer (word to 3rd Bass) was the anti-christ, but in 2010, “Ice Ice Baby” is like Illmatic compared to these lames.

    • Curtis75Black

      You definitely have a point, with your thoughts dealing with Greg Nice and Milk Dee, but at the same time, there was a lane for everyone back in the day. You can virtually hear anyone from Chuck D, to MC Shy D with no issue. If you didn’t like it, you didn’t like. Nowadays peeps are forced down our throats so it makes you hate what they’re rapping and performing a lot more than usual. Plus there was more hot lyricists and songs than they were wack being broadcasted. Rap City wouldn’t be playing half the shit they play on 106 plus, you would’ve had more credible artits repping. You appreciated the greatness when you heard it back then. Was Vanilla Ice that wack, of course not compared to what’s out there today but you could’ve easily seen a Ice Cube video right after Vanilla’s.

      • oskamadison

        You’re absolutely right about dudes having their own lanes back then but back then everyone was tryin’ to BE their own person. Now, you have 90 different versions of the same cat. As much as I like Drake, what I fear about him doing the numbers everyone expects him to do is these dick-riding labels signing every clone they can find. God forbid if Nicki Minaj puts some big numbers up.

        • Curtis75Black

          With the shit she spittin’, if she does big #’s with that, its over for female emcee’s period, especially since Eternia & Moss didn’t get much less a article when their product dropped last month!! You know there was a time where us fans would call out wack shit with ease, now you can’t do that. That’s what made Vanilla Ice who he was and what he became. His peers let him know the deal and the fans respected that because we were fans of the music first, fans of the artist second. Your money didn’t mean shit if the songs were wack. The thing about Greg Nice is that he was balanced by Smooth B, a more story telling emcee that caught your attention with his flow. Maybe if more groups had that type of balance, we wouldn’t be ignoring….

        • oskamadison

          Rah Digga drops in Sept. and I guarantee you there’ll be no promotion or press for her shit whatsoever and she’ll outspit all these chicks off the head…in a coma.

  • Yaw

    Did a black person write this article?

    • Anslem

      Yeah, what difference would that make? I’m no Vanilla Ice fan but like like I said/wrote, listening to the record again I realized the ish was better than most of what’s out now, IMHO.

      Besides, how many non-Black folk would have a name like Anslem.


      • Young Mo Fo

        Good article, just goes to show how bad our biggest rap artists are. 20 years from now we might compare Waka to some new wack rapper..Lets see how bad it can get

        • Anslem

          Thanx, man.

          If we’ll be comparing Waka to someone lesser than him in 20 years. Pass me the bottle of cyanide now. In fact, make it a double.

      • Yaw

        My badness, I weren’t tryna be rude or ignorant (which I accomplished).

        What I should have said was that Vanilla ice was seen as a rip off of the culture. But now it seems weird having a XXL employee validating him as a rapper.


    and don’t sleep, no talent rappers r way more valuable to record labels than talented rappers, because they r replaceable. where as good artists have the ability to make demands, renegotiate contracts, etc.

    in the immortal words of ice cube…”on mtv, but they don’t care, they’ll have a new nigga next year”

  • Money Mitch

    Naptown u can say what u want but icp built an empire by themselves!! They had the longest run on billboard for any hip hop album ever at one point! Been holding a 3 day festival for the last 11 years that brings at least 8,000 people and as far as hip hop rejects go here is the list for people that will be performing there this year

    Naughty By Nature
    Wicked shit vet Spice-1
    M-E-T-H-O-D MAN! and Redman
    Tecca N9ne
    Brotha Lynch Hung!
    Above the Law
    Warren G Thang
    Big B
    Tone Loc
    Rob Base
    Slick Rick
    Hed (pe)

    • swype-matic

      That’s who’s performin’ with them this year??? Damn, I’d go see every one of them over some lame Young Money/Brick Squad shit.

  • Money Mitch

    And don’t forget they destroyed eminem on the song nuthin’ but a bitch thang!

  • BGZ

    ‘Ice Ice Baby’ was written by a cat named Chocolate who knew Vanilla from Dallas, TX and was down with The D.O.C., managed at the time by Suge…

    Just cause rappers today suck even worse lyrically, it doesn’t make Vanilla Ice less bad.

    • El Tico Loco

      You’re right it doesn’t make him any less bad, but at least then he was outnumbered by better rappers, now is the other way around. This article kinda made him (VI) seem like he was ahead of his time sorta.

      • Anslem

        Not necessarily ahead of his time, but the rhymes (in this song at least) were aiight to death and better than I recalled. That’s not saying much. and then you look at some “rhymes” today and it’s sad that VI may have had better bars/ghostwriters.

        Ultimately, though, what he represented was what caused all the hate. Just fakeness, which surprisingly is accepted now more than ever.


    • talon

      You are full of shit. Ice Ice Baby was written by Vanilla Ice and Earthquake.
      Chocolate co-wrote a song Ice made back in 1989 that was again featured on ‘To The Extreme’. So when To The Extreme went to the Billboard 100, Chocolate wanted more money, but he thought he could get even more if he said he also co-wrote Ice Ice Baby.


    Hip hop as a whole has improved. Its a ton of lyrical cats out there OR underground. The industry on displays a certain level of hip hop. ItS Like Burger KIng. you can have it your way BUT we know a steak at ruth chris is how you really get it your way. At burger king you can get BEEF the way you want it, and quickly. Ruth chris is gonna be more expensive, take more time BUT that bad boy will be doing the diddy bop while sizzling on your plate.

    Burger King is this new hip hop. its commercialized. its making money. they cut it. Cocaine isn’t as strong as it was. Nothing is. Air isn’t as good as it was. Water is a privelage.

    with that said, hip hop is doing well as a buisness BUT the art isn’t being reprsented correctly. you can’t blame dudes.

    Soulja boy is growing on the job. its almost like reality tv. you can’t blame him for being hott. Would u turn down a deal or say NAH i don’t want my single to be played or be number one and you keep this million dollars because i haven’t gone to krs one school of hip hop or college yet. Hell, i haven’t even graduated from highschool in the second to last worst state for education.

    let lil dude breathe.


      DUDE…hip hop as improved? name one album in the last 2 years better than illmatic, ready to die, reasonable doubt, all eyes on me, etc. and like it has been said already, HIP HOP IS NOT DOING WELL AS A BUSINESS. niggas r on here saying that rick ross is one of the biggest rappers in the game and he has NEVER even went double plat. pac, big, 50, lauren hill….these cats went DIAMOND! no rapper these days is approacing that. rap has been relegated to a certain crowd these days, when it used to be AMERICA’S MUSIC. rap used to set the trends, not follow them. these young cats now r trying to “party like a rock star” or dress like skateboarders. back in the day we set the tone. i have no prob wit a nigga getting money. but if he took a lil time to make a better product, he’d have longevity, which is where the real money is! just like reality tv…15 mins of fame is nothing compared to 15 years of fame like jigga, nas, face, ugk, 8ball, etc.

      Like the immortal krs 1 said…”Im just thinkin LOOOOONG range….bdp is old school, but we aint going out!”

      soulja boy is really not a good example tho, cuz he is super talented as a producer, most of the new cats r not on his level talent wise. and i do blame rappers from my generation for not scooping him up and grooming him rather than dissing him. EXCEPT KANYE…even tho kanye is the gay rapper, he gets it!

    • El Tico Loco

      Is like this nowadays on average: 1st week 300k units sold, 2nd week 200k, from the 3rd week on is 4 to 5 figures if you’re popular (notice I didn’t say good). How is that an improvement? Remember when DMX who now is a joke to some was killing the charts pulling plaques right and left on the 1st week? who’s doing that now? Oh yeah, eminem and Jay Z and they came out when? My point exact. Can you blame the economy? Maybe, but since music is not a necessity then why put out low quality products when people don’t have the disposable income they once had back then? Why not make the best of the opportunity to make the best music you can make when the spotlight is on you instead of just cruising by? People aren’t trying to waste their money, if I bought a cd from such and such and it was dope. Why should I buy your shit and you sound worse? Or sound like the same cd I just bought? Is pointless.

      • KS

        dont forget the internet which i think has the most to do with declining sales. back then the internet wasn’t as accessible, now everyone can download an album for free. and most people would rather pay nothing than something.

        • El Tico Loco

          Even with the internet, you know when an album is worth the purchase, and lately more than often they’re not, especially with new artists.

        • KS

          touché my nigga touché. the only NEW artist album im looking forward to and will purchase is J. Cole

  • $yk

    C/S’ing a couple of cats up in here. Detroit, oska (whaddup homes?), Tico.

    Like my homie who showed me the industry game used to tell me, anyone can have a hit, but everyone can’t have a career.

    • oskamadison

      $yk, what it is, cat daddy?

      Actually, anyone can have a hit, some may even slide by with a bullshit career but few leave legacies behind.



  • Anonymous



  • Anonymous

    Destroyed Eminem? Yeah I can tell his career is really suffering hahahahaha.


    did anybody get that new Rass Kass?

    J.cole spittin.

    u can’t compare rass kass with wacka flaka. u can in this regards. rass kass had his fans pay for an album. wacka’s success is only beause of his loyal following.

    so, each artist has a following. a career. and is successful.

    i think when u put things in perspective, its easier to appreciate vanilla ice, mc hammer, greg nice, shawty lo, soulja and wacka. in perspective, each artist has their lane.

    if u are a dj (another element of hip hop) you move the crowd accordingly. i promise i could put togher a mix for $yk, O, detriot and others and blow their minds. I could do the same for a group of wacka fans too.

    its like Coming to America. its a great movie. its not considered the best because its a comedy. OR friday. in other words, u can still make classics in different genres of hip hop. If anything, the game is more diverse. The fun music is just selling right now. Can u blame society during a reccission for just wanting to have fun?

    • $yk

      “The fun music is just selling right now. Can u blame society during a reccission for just wanting to have fun?”

      ^ good point.

      But like Lupe said in his BMF freestyle, I think we are having a lil’ too much fun. I think it’s time to start addressing some of the issues. There has to be a balance.

      And BTW, last nite’s ‘Boondocks’ episode plays very well in this conversation.

    • yoprince

      c/s ff1

      the other thing is, some of you act like every artist wants to be nas, or jay-z, or pac.

      some artists don’t even want to be T.I.

      you have to judge an artist against their own goals. Waka is clearly trying to make music for hard heads to party to. Roscoe Dash is making music for the clubs.. so on and so forth..

      with the internet the way it is, the lanes are wide open for anyone to find any type of rap music they want… and to get famous off of it. i’ve never heard Wiz Khalifa on the radio, yet he’s mtv’s hottest whatever off the strength of a free tape and twitter. that’s hip-hop.

      you can’t convince me the game is any weaker now than it ever was.

      the only concession i’ll make is that the internet adds a certain exclusivity to things. those of us with fast internet connections and reliable access to laptops have a much greater exposure than those without.

      • El Tico Loco

        Nobody should be tryna be anybody. Ask yourself how long you think these cats are gonna be around? You brought up Jay, nas, pac I’m sure Roscoe Dash and those guys would like their names still ringing bells 15 or more years after their first album just like you did with the older rappers you mentioned. I feel what you’re saying about them only sticking to a certain demographics but those listeners grow and if they don’t grow with their audience they’re gonna get stuck in this decade 10 years from now. If I’m wrong where’s the shop boys, Ying Yang, Dem Franchise Boys (I know they got a single out) but you get my point? If they don’t step their game up while they got the spotlight they gonna be stuck in this era and you gonna need a new wack rapper to defend, sheeit I’m tryna help these niggas eat. lol

  • Anonymous

    truth is a lot of rappers out today r wack as fuck = if there hot right now!

  • $yk

    And salutes to Anslem for prepping the round table, instead of the dart board.

    Where these songs @ Ans?

    ‘Salute RMX’-Dipset f/Vado

    ‘Cream Of The Planet’-Ski Beats f/Mos Def

    ‘Say It Like It Really Is’-Public Enemy

    • Anslem

      Thanx sir.

      Lost me on the play list, though. You wanted me to compare Vanilla to those tracks too?

      • $yk

        ^ lolz

        Some “bangers” for that section that could add some 5 hr energy to the convo.

        A dude like Cam w/longevity, still relevant, Mos with the cadence we are speaking of in the comments, PE for the old/new referral.

  • Gemz

    $yk spoke on touching the issues and balance. When we Drop our album, please download it. It’s Free! Site should be up October ‘OH 10′.
    It’s called “The Sweet Sixteen”

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    fuck whoever wrote this and whoever agree… hating on sourtern rappers… i’ll let u slide wit soulja boy cuz he do suck gorilla balls, but shawty lo & waka hell nawl… p.s. fuck u “HU” for mentioning boosie name… FUCK AH HATER!!!!!! PUSSY!

  • Diamond of God

    compared to artists of today,VI got alot em. but the main issue at hand should be their impact,as opposed to lyrics. i remember when ice ice baby came out,i was 8 yrs old and had just moved to Turkey.what i remember most was the way that the turkish people loved the song. as soon as they heard it,they went crazy. its easy to sit up here and debate about his skills vs.his,but at the end of the day,all that matters is who achieved what. waka flacka and soulja boy are killin it,on a nationwide level,but it takes a special kind of artist to get that worlwide appeal.i mean look at the roots,i live in philly and whenever philly rap acts are brought up,these guys get no mention,but i bet if you were to ask someone in east bubblefucl about the roots,theyll probably mention going to one of their shows,(which was probably a sold out arean no less).times change,but few artists adapt and change with them.the ones that did are the ones that still around and whos names are still relevant.another thing to realize is that just as times change,so does music.hip hop changes like fashion,every 2 years.and as we(the older cats from what we call the real hip hop generation)get older,the younger cats have no choice but to be exposed to what they are around just like we did. kind of like the example ddude above stated when he referenced duke ellington.we know what we know and what we consider to be classic,and they do the same. considering the fact that education is not one of the popular ideals of today,its perfectly understandable that some of these kids would not be able to fathom the subject matter of a nas illmatic track,or be able to understand the subliminal message in a in my lifetime vol.1 jay-z used to be about lyrics and using that as a base,now its about money and how many different ways you get it and spend it.hip hop has become materialized.its all about what u got,and if you aint got nuttin then you aint nuttin.these labels dont give a fuck about how lyrical or how witty you are,all they wanna know is if you can stick to the formula of the sucessful before you.will it improve? i doubt it. maybe once the economy improves and there are tighter restrictions on song leakage through distribution companies.until the this is what we got,the people have spoken and this is what they crave.personally i dont fuck with none of these artists of today.give me lyrics,but hey they gon do what they do regardless.

  • chris

    i’m sorry but you vanilla ice is a combination of little bit of rock, techno, dance and rap… these four things just don’t match… that’s why most of the haters, who are fans of gangsta rap think ice is shit…
    maybe the lyrics are better than soulja boy or whatever.. but i don’t call vanilla ice a rapper

  • Bol’s #1 Fan Stan

    damn, vanilla ice finally gets a W?



    • Lord Maximus

      If you think shawty lo is better than Maino, you’re one high motherfucker man. Andre 3000 is one of the greats secondly, so obviously he’s better than RZA, but put him up against Ice Cube or Biggie, then he’s creamed. Thirdly, he’s not hating on the region. It just so happens that the 2 wackest rappers Wacka Flocka Flame, what the hell is a wacka flocka anyways? (The word wack is even in his name) and Soulja Boy (Jersey Shore has more talent than him) comes from the South. I will say that Tony Yayo is a million times more wack than shawty lo though.

      @ Ans when’s some new Wale going up? And is there ANY new news on a new Good Ass Job single or ANYTHING at all about a detox release? lol

      • Anslem

        LOL @ the 3rd question. I could give you a date, but I don’t like lying. lol

        As for the rest, when it comes it comes…


    Check this out.

    Again, put things in perspective and don’t count out the average hip hop fan either. they know the difference btwn real hip hop rap and fun music. BUT, real hip hop does need a makeover and a better marketing scheme.

  • ILLfate

    “It’s a new day; People don’t wanna think no more they just wanna feel…” – Pharrell Williams

    people being your avg BET rap listener.

    They dont care that ross is a CO, they just want that maybach music to bump in their toyotas

    They don’t care that game was a stripper, they wanna hear wouldn’t get far

    They don’t care that wayne kisses Birdman on the lips, they just wanna hear a milli

    theres been too many cats with skeletons in there closets coming into the game and having that stuff come to light. Makes it feel like every damn thing out there is manufactured and packaged just to make sales.

    in the game nowadays its really a just struggle to find whats real and whats just trying to fill your head with catchy nonsense. In this easy access culture its anybodys guess whats next to blow, but the formula for sucess has definatly changed and gave way for alota clones to slip in and ride on someone elses coattails. Somehow over time alotta shit started sneaking onto the charts, trends started taking off (ie) “autotune and making a dance” and here we are today; oversimplified beat
    2.spit yo raps
    3.use autotune
    4.repeat repeat repeat
    5.a basic dance move to accompany is an effective option

    and you have a rap hit in five easy steps.

    whatever gets the artist paid, even if it’s at the expense of the culture.

  • Chiliz

    Hip Hop is Dead…period! I thought Drizzy was gonna run with it but nah he garbage. Weezy too dissapointed…who’s next J.Cole?
    Street is watching!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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  • fanatic

    come on man …you’re giving the ice man hope..

  • Blaze

    Vanilla Ice didnt write his lyrics so kill this bs blog…if u wanna say souja boy and waka suck just say it but dont compare them to a dude that just rapped what was put in front of him

  • YoUtopic

    I was ready to argue, but dude you have a point.

  • oskamadison

    Blaze, congratulations. You have officially deaded this blog.

  • kedordu

    blaze . ur point is moot . cause we all know dude didnt write his bars. but its no fucking excuse . its part of the problem . maybe they need ghost writers then just think about it

    silk the shocker > soulja boi >lil b > waka flocka > bang ?

    other forms of entertainment have a level of quality . pop has to be manufactured to a standard, rock , everything else.

  • andre from baltimore

    did anybody ever notice that fabolous was copying “ice, ice baby” on “young’n (holla back)”?

    i like ice ice baby, he was rapping hard on there, sure he was off-beat sometimes, but it was iight for it’s time.

  • The Wrath

    First of all I’d like to give credit to the author for doing his very best at trying not to jump on the ‘hate on Vanilla Ice’ band wagon. But seriously, why is it that every time people talk about Vanilla Ice, they have to hate on the fact he sampled “Under Pressure”. Why is it that EVERY OTHER RECORDING ARTIST/RAPPER is allowed to sample with out getting called out on it, yet Ice samples “Under Pressure”, and takes serious heat? Is it because it turned out to be a mega-hit? Probably. Newsflash: Ice was offered a deal by Def Jam back in the day for a lot less money than he signed to SBK for. He was a white boy who could flow, spit decent verses, and break dance. His rhymes are better than a lot of modern artists, the sad part is people actually buy into Soulja Boy and Wacka Flacka, yet for some reason don’t give Ice his due? WEAK.

  • Solitar

    Totally right about Ices verses being better than these new groups that are basically novelty acts. “I am on a boat” what kinda of joke is that? I would also include black eyed peas lame ass career to the joke side of rap.

    I was listening to LL Cool J’s BAD the other day and vanilla ice can totally compete with him, the dude raps about Charlie brown. Thats more then fair.
    If you know your history Ices song and career lit up because people heard it on the radio, not knowing the colour of his skin and soon as people saw that he was white they hated on him.
    Ice started his career, coming from nothing (and yes he was from streets and has the scars from being knifed to prove it) and started opening for N.W.A and other successful hip hip groups of the time. He played to black crowds and at clubs, when he hit main stream the major label he signed with (he turned down def jam for a bigger pay day) Sbk wanted to make the cream so they dressed him like mc hammer and marketed him to the white kids. They also tried to clean up his image (which made ice look like a lier). To this day most don’t know the true story they just listen to the hype about him being a lier and a fabricated artist.

    The truth is Ice is a great hip hop artist ,not the greatest lyrically, but over. He has amazing flow (cat can rap over anything) I have went to hundred of hip hop shows and Vanilla Ice comes out on top when it comes flow, (and performance for that matter) The man can beat box, break dance, dj scratch, he produces and writes is own stuff. He keeps being innovative over the years. His beats are sick. I dare anyone to listen to some of his new stuff like O.K.S, Say Good Bye, Hustlin, Dun natt, or rollin in my and tell me he doesn’t have talent.
    Good article, it refreshing to see someone actually use their own mind instead of listening to all the hype and backing down.

  • Hardcore Heaven

    Vanilla Ice did write his own raps. He wrote “Ice Ice Baby” when he was 16 and that dude Chocolate had nothing do with it. Suge Knight came into Vanilla Ices hotel room and said you have to pay to play. This whole thing about that money being royalties for ice ice baby is crap. Bottom line Ice gave Suge the money to start death row and the rest is history, “A wack white boy was why we had death row and the great cds from pac and snoop ect. Give the cat credit for who he is.

    “KRS-1 once said that in order to even get into a studio in his day, you had to first be the best on your stoop, then the best on your block, then the best in your hood/burrough. THAT’S GROOMING. it would be a shame if soulja boy overstays his welcome and gets labeled/forced out the game b4 he even reaches his full potential!”

    Thats what vanilla Ice did he started rapping, beat boxing, breakdancing on the streets and won over the rappers there and went on to play a open mike at a all black crowd and won them over too. He payed his dues big time. Thats the truth all of you who say he was manufactured are listening to the lies. He was 100 percent true artist. But this cat was more then a rapper, he was a hip hop artist. Meaning he could do more then just rap, he could break dance, beat box, produce, scratch, he can play all the instruments too.

    Vanilla is the man.

    new cd is coming out soon

  • Derek

    Vanilla Ice never got the respect he deserved. Mind Blowin’ and Bi-Polar is superior to the current mainstream shit.

  • freightliner