Forever: In Black And White…


Madd respect to The Rockabye Review

The above embedded track is titled ‘Forever’ and it is becoming the 2009 version of ‘Swagga Like Us’.

‘Forever’ features Drake, KanYe West, Lil’ Wayne and Eminem.

From a rapping standpoint Eminem came in the hardest. KanYe West also delivered a supreme verse, but Eminem was the king on this track. After KanYe West we have Drake and then Wayne’s verses to round out the fantastic four. Actually, Drake and Wayne’s verses weren’t all that spectacular. Drake’s lines are serviceable, Wayne is totally overshadowed by KanYe and Eminem. Wayne doesn’t even belong on this record.

The Lil’ Wang fans will immediately accuse me of hating on their favorite rapper, but the truth is that I listened to this song more than fifty times while I set up all the drops for my site today. To prove my point that Wayne’s verses are subpar I will go to the numbers that don’t ever lie. I believe the polysyllabic word count not only illustrates which artist’s have better lines but better technique and mic skills.

Word Count: 222
Polysyllabic: 12

There they go, packin’ stadiums as Shady spits his flow
Nuts they go, macademia, and they go so ballistic, whoa
He can make them look like bozos, he’s wonderin’ if he should spit this slow
Fuck no, don’t provoke, his cup just runneth over, oh, no
He ain’t had it with bars like this since the last time that he overdosed
They been waitin’ patiently for Pinocchio to poke his nose
Back into the game and they know rap’ll never be the same as before
Bashin’ in the brains of these hos, and establishin’ a name as he goes
The passion and the flame is ignited, you can’t put it out once we light it
This shit is exactly what the fuck that I’m talkin’ about when we riot
You dealin’ with a few true villians who stand inside of the booth true spillin’
And spit true feelings until them two feelings come flyin’ up out of our mouths, then rewind it
Payback, motherfucker, for the way you got at me, how’s it taste?
I’ma slap the taste out of your mouths with the bass so loud that it shakes the place
I’m Hannibal Lecter, so just in case you’re thinkin’ of saving face
You ain’t gonna have no face to save by the time I’m through with this, play some Drake

Word Count: 185
Polysyllabic: 8

I used to have hood dreams: Big fame, big chains
I stuck my dick inside this life until that bitch came
And went hard all fall like the ball teams
Just so I could make it rain all spring
Y’all seen my story, my glory
I had raped the game young, you could call it statutory
When a nigga blow up, they gon’ build statues for me
Old money, Benjamin Button, what, nothin’
Nah, superbad chicks givin’ me McLovin’
You would think I ran the world like Michelle’s husband
You would think these niggas know me when they really doesn’t
Like they was down with the old me, no, you fuckin’ wasn’t
“Uh, you such a fuckin’ loser
You ain’t even go to class, Bueller”
Trade the Grammy plaques just to have my granny back
‘Member she had that bad hip like a fanny pack?
Chasing the stardom’ll turn you to a maniac
All the way in Hollywood and I can’t even act
They pull they cameras out, and God damn, they snap
I used to want this thing forever, you can have it back

Word Count: 144
Polysyllabic: 3

Last name Ever, first name Greatest
Like a sprained ankle, boy, I ain’t nothin’ to play with
Started off local, but thanks to all the haters
I know G4 pilots on a first-name basis
In your city faded off the brown, Nino
She insists she got more class, we know
Swimming in the money, come and find me, Nemo
If I was at the club you know I balled, chemo
Dropped a mixtape, that shit sounded like an album
Who’da thought a country-wide tour be the outcome
Labels want my name beside an X like Malcolm
Everybody got a deal, I did it without one
Yeah, nigga, I’m about my business
Killin’ all these rappers, you would swear I had a hitlist
Everyone who doubted me is askin’ for forgiveness
If you ain’t been a part of it, at least you got to witness

Word Count: 160
Polysyllabic: 3

Okay, hello, it’s the Martian, Space Jam Jordans
I want this shit forever, wake up and smell the garden
Fresher than the harvest, step up to the target
If I had one guess, then I guess I’m just New Orleans
And I will never stop, like I’m runnin’ from the cops
Hopped up in my car and told my chauffer “To the top”
Life is such a fuckin’ roller coaster, then it drops
But what should I scream for? This is my theme park
My mind shine even when my thoughts seem dark
Pistol on my side, you don’t want to hear that thing talk
Let the king talk, check the price and pay attention
Lil Wayne, that’s what they got to say or mention
I’m like Nevada in the middle of the summer
I’m resting in the lead, I need a pillow and a cover
Shhh, my foot’s sleepin’ on the gas
No brake pads, no such thing as last

You can even see through the text formatting that Eminem is going in with his bars. He spits a polysyllabic word per every 18.5 words in his verse, while Drake has a polysyllabic word for every 47 words he issues and Wang comes through with an abysmal tally of 53.3 words for every one that he utters with more than three syllables. KanYe West was right on Eminem’s heels with a count of 23.125 within his bars and that figure slightly more than doubles Drake’s output.

There are two things that I would like to clarify here. Rap music is firstly and foremost about the skill and dexterity the orator has with language. Some of us might use the term wordplay but it extends far deeper[ll] than simply playing with words. Does the orator have a mastery of words? Or is the speaker restricted by his or her own limited vocabulary? Complex compound words are the zenith of the English language. If you think grunts and chirps are so evocative why aren’t you in an aviary(see what I just did) listening to birds tweet since you are obviously a birdbrain?

Finally, if you take away anything from this drop it should be the knowledge that some rappers make simple rhymes for simple minds.

‘Nuff said.

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  • DownSouth

    Fantastic drop yo. I think all of them did a good job. I agree that Em was the best. Kanye was sweet with his, just his delivery alone is tight. I know this will never happen, but I wish that Em could so a song with Canibus. You’d have to listen to that song a hunned times, lol!


    • shaffaaf27

      crook and canibis have killed some tracks together, now if only em would join them. Crooked i is the king of polysyllabic words.

      hell just listen to lyrical murdereous, and thats jsut scratching the iceberg.

      then take a listen to the horse shoe gang

  • L-Y, NawfWestSide

    Mayne, hol up. Em tagged and bagged that bitch. Thatz why the white boi has been holdin’ his spot down in my top ten for yearz. The muhfuccer used to be favorite lyricist b4 i completeLy overdosed and went comotose after feeling the effects of yearz of Nas’s lyricism and creativity. Em iz the victor on this one, handz down. P.e.a.c.e./Hotep – Screwston, Tejas –

  • chillin mayne

    jaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa…that aviary/birdbrain sentence was quite the tickler…regardless, that song does go hard, first time i herd it

    the polysyllabic word count..hmmmm..u may b right, except in overall content i was feelin kanyes verse the most, then Em…drake… i felt waynes verse wasnt that hot, it was aight

    Mr.Penn, you heard the rumors bout slaughterhouse tryna add a southern cat to the group??…are they based in fact or fictional as waynes claim to be the best rapper alive?? i know you got the info on slaughterhouse, which is why i ask

    • DV8

      If that rumor has any truth to it I would say i hope it would be Stat Quo but him being in Slaughterhouse might bring down Stat’s own musical quality. As a matter of fact I liked all Slaughterhouse members better as solo artist. Except Buddens not based on his music but because he wrestled away the B.A.N. Award (Bitch Ass Nigga) from Yung Herb due to his actions over the past year to date.

  • chillin mayne


  • these posts are racist


    Em did merk this track, but not because of the numbers game you’re playing with…Music is not a science, its an art…its not math, you don’t know the half! (Get it? I feel like spittin)

    Billy, you are silly, u don’t know the half
    this is real rap
    an art not math
    be smart
    u ass
    lil wayne is a poet of this time
    u just lookin for a laugh
    lil wang? it’s lil wayne
    u just mad cuz u can’t hang
    u just the beer bottle in menace, 40 and broke
    shout out to the Roc, this is rock, have a smoke.

    • HNIC

      That menace line was ill!

      “u just the beer bottle in menace, 40 and broke”

    • DetroitDraper

      Lmfao I didnt know you had that in you TPAR lol.


    • Casey

      lol @ ppl not knowing you bit the 40 and broke line from Freeway dissing Jaz-O

      • these posts are racist

        um..”LOL” people not understanding that this is a part of Hip Hop and that I cited accordingly.

  • Brian

    Do the same polysyllabic test to Swagga Like Us and guess what you get?!

    Kanye – 6
    Jayz – 2
    Wayne – 3
    TI …. 12

    TI and Eminem the closers! Kanye right in the middle but definitely there content wise… Wayne nothing special on either. Basically flip Drake for Jay in Forever, except Drake proved he could hang with three rap heavyweights, whereas Jay kind of mailed it in on Swagga. And I’m a big Hov fan, but obviously not his finest moment with that slow simple style. He can bring it though, just not on that track.

    Now we need a Kanye, Drake, Emimem, TI track called Swagga Forever! ~too bad swagga is out the door already…

  • jburg

    Damn homie!! I don’t know who you are, but I can tell you not one of the new school Souja Boy lovers! Good shit right here. I am not knowledgeable with all the terms you used but I get the point. You young fucks should pay attention.

  • these posts are racist

    here’s a riddle hoe
    what do you call a wack blogger who hates on talent?
    times up, here we go
    Billy Sunday, who one day
    woke up and changes his name to dallas penn
    he’s sees young cats gettin money and he’s mad at them
    don’t be mad at them, be mad at you
    it’s u that who u should blame
    criticize the players but u never played a day in this game
    u the type who doesn’t own an umbrella but curses the rain
    u curse the darkness, you should get a candle
    i’m taggin your wall with verbal spray paint, i’m a vandal
    this is a scandel
    got u screamin Jesus! like i got on old brown sandles
    and a beard, but look here
    ur a critic in the rear
    no talent and no ear
    so just sit in the back and hate while we steer.

    • X


      • these posts are racist

        i’m waiting for Dallas (no) Penn (keep hopin’) to battle me…so until then, i won, son.

        “…name next to the X like Malcom”. How do you think that is not hot!?! it doesn’t matter how many syllables are in the words in that line. The line is hot! Drakes verse was sick, H1N1 sick! You numbers ain’t adding up Billy!

        • Tony Grands

          TPAR, you livin fantasies, deposit rejected/stop for a second, & witness the onslaught I perfected

          A minimalist at best, I guess this used to be an aspiration/now ya facin decapitation & emasculation

          Stick to philosophy & legal ambition/or find a safe spot in fetal postion, screamin & wishin

          You chose to doze, I suppose you’re so morose/cuz you know those flows full of holes, like calico’s

          blows from ya foes out of fo’ doors, you shoulda froze/but nope, instead you followed ya nose, now case closed

          Get exposed like Amber Rose & silicon injections/ya words-malnutritioned, ya thoughts-yeast infected

          You embellish, I abolish & get monuments erected/pause, this here is fun, more like a hobby than profession

          You know Dallas won’t be rappin, but I will/now take it like a man, hold ya breath & lie still……

        • Tony Stans


        • these posts are racist

          Tony Grand
          you phoney man
          you and silly billy be holdin hands
          i’m the captain crunch of xxl, you just sweet like golden grahms
          or lucky charms, i’m lucky luchiano with these verbal arms
          get it? lucky luchiano? i run the commission!
          shut the fuck up and listen
          i call my pistol Angelena Jolie and the chick loves kissin

          go against the king? you must have lost it!
          Tony No grand, you’re bankrupt so how you reject my deposit?
          How are you Tony Grand when you’re rhyme makes no sense?
          You should be called Tony Sham, cuz u rappin under false pretense
          i used to throw rocks, now i just spit raw
          sure, ill stick to law
          plus diggin my bone marrow in your girls jaw
          There, you got some attention, now go back to being my fan
          and let Dallas speak for himself, afterall he is your “man”.

        • OG Matt Herbz

          “These Posts Are Racist”
          On XXLmag of all places?
          just face it, you’re misplaced
          take that race shit and erase it
          Now herbz ain’t never been one to fuck with discrimination
          but the last time you hung with blacks
          you were chilling on vacation
          took a trip to the motherland
          and saw you had no relation
          to anyone anymore call it mental de-Africanization
          About facing
          pacing around spittin abominations
          you ain’t the king of xxl
          neither is this obama’s nation
          with ivy league education
          white washed is what it makes him
          can’t relate to hip hop no more,
          he’s sore and he hates it
          it was herbz last week
          i see you found a replacement
          in dallas penn
          i ain’t a stan so i’ll let that man slap you with his own hand
          But back on pace, you’ll get chased back to your place, shit
          let me find out you livin in someone else’s basement
          spent all day on the computer like an embracement of masturbation
          but instead feeds into the exacerbation
          of his own effacement
          Spittin cold booty ass rhymes
          there ain’t a more intellectual way to state it.
          I hate it when you leave your mark on the blog–it smells like you defecated.

          –OG Matt Herbz–

        • Tony Grands

          Sub par bars from TPAR, like I expected/bone marrow, easy dude, don’t get too reckless/my wife would whip ya ass with her Baby Phat necklace/& my son would eat your cereal metaphors for breakfast

          Next is the exit, find it & step dude/by the way, it’s GRANDS, at the end there’s an ‘s’ fool/those post ain’t racist, just extra soft throw that shit away/looks like you’ve ghost written for Kid n Play

          I had attention way before you typed ya little nursery rhymes/if you think ya really hurtin me, fine/delusional & illusional-a bad actress that’s leakin wackness/the hardest thing about you is the stains on ya mattress

          How you run the commission?, you just runnin ya mouth/when us colored boys come out to play you run in the house/we come & knock on the door, you hidin under the couch, “these rhymes are wack” from now on should come out ya mouth

        • these posts are racist

          Matt Herbz
          You a noun, a clown
          i spit verbs
          its absurd
          a kid from the suburbs
          who thinks he can relate because he says “son” and “oh word!”
          take it e-zay
          i grew up in the PJ’s
          Dwayne Carter in my lungs, yeah, asthma had me a lil weezay
          no health care, no doctor and no asthma sprays
          no 401 K’s, Roth IRA’s just crack sales, cops and AK sprays
          only kid from the hood to do the ivy league
          yet and still, i rhyme with ease
          please believe, i know real OG’s
          Freddy Mac or Larry Hoover
          people or folks both will leave you in a sewer
          come to the Chi, ill give you a tour
          you can see i’m still in touch, give back to the poor
          let’s set the record straight
          i don’t talk shit, i defecate
          right in your face
          like shaq to kobe, Matt, tell me how my ass tastes?
          you are not Eminem, so please just lose it
          i aint the king? shit…i got the enemies to prove it!
          only commenter to get out shouted out in several bloggers posts
          i get called out in blogs i aint even comment in, like they scared of TPAR’s ghost
          i grew up around drugs, thugs and alcoholics
          worked hard and went to college
          come to XXL to read/discuss and drop knowledge
          but if u keep talkin shit, ill swell your eye fatter than my wallet
          i can’t call it
          we had a truce but you chose to cross the line,
          so ill end this rhyme, with one line:
          OG Matt Herbz, the Fakest Human of All Time.

        • these posts are racist

          tony sham, you don’t want beef, you barely want spam/
          got u shook like a chicken, now you out on a lamb/
          someone sound the sio-rens/
          get ready for the vio-lens/
          my nine loves vio-lence/
          it’s tired, let’s out a sigh now all you hear is sio-lence/
          you’re right, i don’t run the wack commission, yall just pay me tax/
          you and Matt should team up and as he would say “go chillax”/
          i spit straight facts/
          i sound like kid and play?/
          i had a House Party at your crib, told your son “kid go play”/
          look…i aint “goin hurt nobody”/
          but if you don’t know now, you better ask somebody!/
          intellectual convo or battle rap shit/
          i come harder than the stains i left on your mattress, bitch/
          u went against the king and you missed/
          if you apologize now, ill let you live and keep 5% of your shit.

        • Around and Around

          Dam TPAR taking on 2???


        • Tony Grands

          You keep fallin deeper in the chasm, I saw some bloggers shouted you out/you never heard of sarcasm?/ever heard of orgasm from a woman, instead/of in a alley with some dude gettin head?

          I really doubt it, I know your type, left the hood went off to college/came home to “drop knowledge” or whatever you call it/brag about how hard life it, still stuck in a crisis/bougie now, the cost of being a coon-priceless

          Hit the club, holdin a cosmo, talkin to white chicks/not knowin they’re Marlon Wayans until the bedroom light hits/& still you ignore the adams apple you lickin, come to my hood &-nevermind you too chicken

          Clock’s tickin, talking gun shit on a computer, e-thug graduate/wastin your time rhymin, go find Jesus of Nazareth/& maybe he can heal you, cuz I don’t feel you/pinocchio-ass nigga, wishin you were a real dude

        • OG Matt Herbz

          TPAR, I think you went a little far with the grammar talk:
          You don’t spit verbs, you swallow my dick and spit Herbz.
          Fuck the burbz, and fuck an ivy league nerd,
          I’m white and I’m still good in your hood, that’s my word
          Matter of fact…I called my boy Freddy Mac—
          He was with Larry Hoover, both said they never knew ya
          So what you meant to say, you grew up wearing your big sisters’ PJs
          Giving her boyfriends BJs like you were born to be gay
          You type what you can’t say with Dwayne Carter in your mouth,
          On the couch at Baby’s house, no rubbers, no pullouts
          Just 3 fiends, broken dreams and tubes of herpes cream
          Just imagining the scene, you popped all over the computer screen
          You a fan of the Lakers? Or you just fuck that whole team?
          They say your ass game is lame but your head game is mean.
          And what you know about Shaquille except that he likes you in heels?
          He asked Kobe about the ass cause you told him it tastes like veal.
          Yo for real, next time you feel like you got that chest of steel
          Take a step back, remember your wack, turn off the computer and chill
          Or you’ll find yourself about 60, still hoping for a record deal
          Turning tricks on collection agents, because your account balance is nill.

          –OG Matt Herbz–

        • these posts are racist

          I ain’t worried about Memphis Bleek and Kevin Federline/
          i spit better rhymes lying on my back gettin’ head from dimes/
          they don’t know i’m a Star like the dean of law at pepperdime/
          They just snitches…like the dean of law at pepperdime/
          actually Tony can’t be Bleek cuz Dallan isn’t Jay/
          he’s about five years older and works for valet/
          and Matt can’t be K -Fed cuz he had Brit/
          and Matt gave head in the UK to a couple of Brits/
          u see where i’m going, you cant fuck with this.

  • a.k.i

    In case yall didn’t notice, Wayne wasn’t even on topic.

    “I will never stop/ like i’m runnin from the cops”??? profound! lol

    Em + kanye > drake > wayne

  • Hanch

    LMFAO…That was horrible TPAR OMFG i would be embrassed to even say thats what i wrote. Dont be mad cause Lil Wang is a simple mofo and sucks!

  • Ben

    LOL at Tpar!!!! Damn you wack, you ain ‘t steering shit, lol. See what kind of fans Wayne has?!? I think Ye’ murdered it, Em second, I think the statutory line, and old money Ben button line were the clinchers for me. Ye been rappin’ hes ass off lately.

    • *BLOCK*

      BLOCK BITCH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



    i didn’t like wanye’s verse and i like em when he uses his regular voice. he came in real good kanye and drake keep things moving.

  • ceaser paciotti

    no disrespect to your artform or favorite rappers…but if you listeners consider these verses “hot” or skilled or whatever I know for an undisputed fact I will be crowned the greatest when I choose to reveal ya’ll just don’t know but I aint mad at ya..enjoy these artists while they’re still relevant..ill be out soon its in God’s hands now.

  • chris

    just cause a rapper spits 3+ syllable words doesn’t mean his flow is more according to you when ye said “mclovin” in his verse..that signifies “vocabulary mastery” cause its three or more syllables? Keep the words per minute count for typing class bruh..count the three syllable rhymes if anything and then tell me whose the better “orater” haha to each they own i guess

  • ?

    Em coulda spit one word and his verse still would have been better than everyone else’s.

    I think it was Em, Drake, ye, and weezy though

  • DV8

    remember not to long ago when heads was saying Kanye fell off?

  • DontTrip

    Hahaha Loving The Blog Speaks The Truth Eminem Just Proving He Can Do It Better Then 99% Of Them Other Rappers Out There
    And I Still Continue To Be Amazed How A Guy Like Wayne Was Able To BrainWash My Generation To Thinking He’s The BestRapperDeadOrAlive…
    Fuck Out Of Here With That Garbage And Stop Recycling Your Lines So Much.
    Fuck Wayne Dumbs It Down To Much And Thats Why He Probably Grasp The Attention Of So Much Dick Rydas Out There Cuz They Dumb As Fuck..
    I Aint Saying He Hasnt Spit Any Good Shit But As Of Recently I Ask MySelf Is This Guy Sipping Syrup And Writing At The Same Time Or WTF


    this song CRUSHES! Swagger Like Us. everybody’s verse was on point. me, i like Ye, then Em, & Drake & Wayne. i woke up to this song this morning, they played Em’s verse on the morning show i listen to. i just wish T.I. could’ve jumped on this shit.

  • EmCDL

    Gotdayum Em killed that ish! Kanye’s was nice too, Drake and Lil’ Wang was aight. But Em pretty much murdered that track; dude’s wordplay is like physics!

  • str8jckn

    TPAR if yur stealin lines at least reference them correctly its “your like the beer Kain dropped in Menace, 40 and broke/….

    Freeway “i get high” jaz-o diss

    • these posts are racist

      Dear Str8Klown,

      I didn’t “jack” referencing lines from other raps is Hip Hop…i just switched it up and I did give credit:

      “u just the beer bottle in menace, 40 and broke
      shout out to the Roc, this is rock, have a smoke.”

      I shouted out the Roc, real heads recognize…my verse has multiple puns/play on words and meanings…analyze/revise and come back.

      • AvengerXL

        WTF? you really like drakes verse that much?

        Yes drakes verse is solid most definite. But EM’s verse on this one bodied everyones even if you don’t break it down to the mathmatical components. Kanye stepped his rap game waaay up or bought a better ghost writer during his 808 and heart breaks hiatus. Wayne hasn’t been trying since his shit sandwhich of a cd went platinum and he dissed/sued every DJ living. Drake is good at crafting punchlines and doing pop ballads, as well as hooks.

        THE END

  • Victor

    Dallas has a point. But there is a balance between structure and creativity/content. I think internal rhymes are vital though. The true greats can juggle a number of attributes (content, charisma, internals, polysyllaby, wordplay, delivery etc.) at a high level. Thats why eminem is greater than wayne. A number of factors rather than a single one.

  • Silly Willy

    I’ll give it to Em, Kanye came close.

    I’d like to have Em, Lupe, Crooked I and Ghostface on a banger like this…..

    Ah shit, this being hypothetic and all, make that Method Man, 22 Two’s Jay, Snoop and Em, and a boombastic Just Blaze behind the boards…..

  • Incilin

    Good post. But in the past, your math was usually pretty off. Just saying.

  • jonjon23

    Enlightening! Your like a professor of all that is niggerish! That’s the problem with our race now: Instead of going to class and getting educated; we study raps written by people who in many cases never even sniffed the 10th grade. To be honest, if any of these guys (JayZ included) didn’t rap–do you think they would be doctors or rocket scientists?

  • jonjon23

    And stop riding Eminem’s crotch. He was expressing what he really thought about our race when he disrespected black women in his songs.

  • Dallas Penn

    Who the fuck said that music has no relation to science or math?

    You dumb shit assfuck. You stupid ass faggoty faggot.

    What the fuck do you think your ears process? Sound? Can sound NOT be measured for decibel level, frequency and amplification?

    What shit for brains doesn’t understand the blood related kinship of the arts and the sciences.

    Music, like painting or sculpture or ANY art must FIRST follow a form. A form is short for formula and it is a guided set of principles. Art is not pell mell. It contains thought and structure.

    Some motherfucker placing a dot of paint on a canvas is not art. It might provoke a discussion about what art is, but that act is NOT art.

    Just like someone grabbing a microphone and saying pyscho-babble is not art. If you don’t respect the relationship of art and science you are a fucking savage. A fucking animal. Even primates can tell the difference between art snd crap and if you can’t you belong naked in a cage.

    For several years before I started writing at XXL I maintained my weblog If your stupid ass only knows me from then you need to get on the teh Googles and learn about what the fuck Dallas Penn represents.

    I don’t care what you call me shit 4 brains, but you had better fucking well know that you can’t fux with my history. I’m a rock on these internets bitch, and you is a pebble.

    A bitch ass pebble too, like some amethyst shit, some turquoise shit, definitely not onyx.


      Yeah, he DEFINITELY ain’t Onyx…

  • Master Cheef

    we’ve just witnessed a manimal on wild, murderous rampage.

    *ducks the fuck out of the way*

  • Dallas Penn

    I apologize to the Commission for my little tirade on tpar. I can’t even understand how someone doesn’t understand the relationship that math has to everything we do.

    Doesn’t that nigger hear when rappers ask their producer, engineer or soundman to “count them in”? Or when rappers count bars? To say that that art has no math is some unlearned shit.

    If this is what they teach niggers when they admit them to an ivy league school I will stay smiling with my GED from City As School.

    Why don’t you do a little breakdown of the lyrics on ‘Swagga Like Us’ instead of just listing the partial numbers. Show some initiative for real instead of taking the shortcut method.

    BTW Brian, just on a cursory check I counted 16 polysyllabic worsd in TI’s verse and I didn’t even see how many words he used overall. Do the math lil’ homey and make us all smarter for your efforts.

    • Brian

      DP – Sorry that was a quick check at the end of a long work day. Here’s the #s for Swagga broken down further:

      Kanye: 114 Words, 6 polys – 1 every 19 words
      (Christopher, Columbus, Thanksgiving, attitude, permanent, every)

      Jayz: 124 Words, 2 polys – 1 every 62 words
      (graduation, different)

      Wayne: 124 Words, 3 polys – 1 every 41 words
      (Adidas, several, Carmelo)

      TI: 144 Words, revised count of 18 polys – 1 every 8 words (!!!!!)

      (Kanyeezy, diversity, controversy, adversity, autobiographical, absolutely, classical, another, nobody, outstanding, qualities, exaggeration, necessary, revolutionary, legendary, hereditary, February, extraordinary)

      So under this analysis, TI absolutely (no pun intended) KILLS on this track, Kanye holds his own, and Wayne and Jay are focusing on a slower, simpler style – much like Drake and Wayne on Forever. Except like I said in the first post, Drake was stepping into the ring with the heavyweights, Jayz is supposed to be one of those heavyweights and didn’t bring it as hard on Swagga.

      Other thoughts?

  • connor

    “Some motherfucker placing a dot of paint on a canvas is not art. It might provoke a discussion about what art is, but that act is NOT art.”

    Argumentation is generally thought of as possessing various rules as well, Dallas, and your comment breaks more than a few of them. Ever hear of begging the question?

    Even if we all accept your premise that art must meet certain formal/structural requirements, as determined by some ill-defined sort of general consensus, it’s still pretty reductive to literally be counting syllables to determine skill. I think you started off a bit tongue-in-cheek to protect yourself, but you seem to generally feel like big words are always better; this is certainly fine if it’s your opinion, but it’s hardly scientific.

    It’d be sort of like saying that you could tell how good a beat was by counting the number of tracks playing at a time. Up to a certain point, it’s fair; hard to have a great beat with just a kick, a snare, and a bass, but after that it’s basically anybody’s game. Sadly, this type of shit is pretty hard to quantify.

    This post makes a lot of presumptions.

  • Dallas Penn

    Here’s the math I use to tell me how god a beat is…

    The number of times I press rewind.

  • these posts are racist

    Dallas “needs a better” Penn,

    Apparently they didn’t teach you basic logic at you city school. You’re using unrelated illogical examples to prove your point. Why don’t you talk about the numbers on the dash boards of the cars rappers use to get to the studios? Or the number of miles one travels to get to the studio? Thats logically as significant to a quality of a song as the examples you provide.

    The reason the following verse is hot:
    “…like a sprained ankle, boy, I ain’t nothin’ to play with
    Started off local, but thanks to all the haters
    I know G4 pilots on a first-name basis”

    is multifold, including the with the double meanings/puns and reality of his life he is conveying…as well as his flawless delivery. I kept saying “oh shit” after each line. Someone else may not think such verse is witty or hot. Someone else may not thing his delivery is flawless, like i did. It’s all subjective.

    Now math: 2 plus 2 equals 4. Nobody can argue against this inherent truth. The distance between Chicago and Milwaukee is 90 miles. Now you do the math.

    Oh, and my comments get more comments than your post…I guess I murdered you on your own shit (shout out to Nas). Men lie, women lie, numbers don’t…(shout out to Jay).

    • Around and Around

      Dam you dropped science 90 miles btw Chicago and Milwaukee…

      So if what Silly Billy Sunday is saying is right…then Mikai Pfier must have dropped the illiest rhyme in history in 8 miles?

      “It’s the super metaphysical scientifical individual hypersexual..”

      -Or whatever stupid shit he said.

      There’s plenty of other factors other then counting Polysyllabic words. Take that shit to the Wu and those clown ass 5 percenters

  • Tony Grands

    DP, just here to add a hit. I already dropped off my 2 pennies on your site.

    But, I’ll recap briefly;

    I just wanted the verses anyway, as opposed to hearing the song, out of curiosity as to how this gathering of “hot MC’s” would fare. Thanks for doing that paperwork.

    • Tony Grands

      Actually, question @ whoever. Since Marshall had the luxury of writing his verse last, how much of an impact did that have on the fact that his was the best?

      • these posts are racist

        Nada…Em murks tracks. Period.

  • Dallas Penn

    That’s a great question because I was chatting up Plain Pat tonight about this song since the internets are buzzing.

    Plain was telling me that ‘Ye laid the verse awhile back when the track was only going to be with Weezy and Drake.

    If KanYe had come in last after hearing everyone’s spit I wonder what this joint might sound like.

    F.Y.I. Wang’s verse is a rewrite. Hmmmmmmmm…

  • Tony Grands

    After listening to this song for AWHILE, over & over, I think that all four came off well, respectively.

    Each dude played his lane; a lot of times these “superstar” collaborations find the artists stepping on each others toes, or blantantly challenging one another. Although, it’s not like the days when niggas would converge on a beat simultaneously, in the same studio, smoking the same weed (SH, anyone?), so that same “stop looking in my notebook” factor, good or bad, wasn’t there.

    I think had they all sat down & wrote together, the song would’ve turned out completely different.

    But, all in all, I like the song:

    Drake-balls to the wall
    bragging, like the new kid should…

    Kanye-emoting & honest; what he’s best at…

    Lil Wayne-dumbed down lyrics, but his rhymes have a certain personality, which has gotten him this far, so why stop now…

    Em-proving that he can get on here with these under 30 cats, & show what a high-quality vet can do no matter who he’s on the track with…

  • ATI

    Terrible logic.

    Many syllables – dope rhymes?

    The fuck? I guess this is what Eminem fans are left to resort to at this point.

    And Em DID have the best verse, it just had very little to do with the complexity of his diction (pause). Not only did he have the most complex and memorable flow, but he had the best dope-to-corny line ratio, while managing to be clever and on-topic.

    If this is really how you come to your opinions on what rhymes are dope or not, you have way too much time on your hands.

  • Dallas Penn

    ^ Commission bitch!

  • crisis

    Dallas you are the GOD of this shit
    cats need to educate their EARS if they think it isn’t about mathematics

    “Fake niggaz get blitzed
    and mic bites I swing swords and cut clowns
    Shit is too swift to bite you record and write it down
    I flow like the blood on a murder scene, like a syringe
    on some loud howl shit, to insert a fiend
    But it was yo ock, the shop stolen heart
    Catch a swollen heart from not rollin smart
    I put mad pressure, on phony wack rhymes that get hurt
    Shit’s played, like zodiac signs on sweatshirt
    That’s minimum, and feminine like sandals
    My minimum table stacks a verse on a gamble
    Energy is felt once the cards are dealt
    With the impact of roundhouse kicks from black belts
    that attack, the mic-fones like cyclones or typhoon
    I represent from midnight to high noon
    I don’t waste ink, nigga I think
    I drop megaton BOMBS more faster than you blink
    Cause rhyme thoughts travel at a tremendous speed
    Clouds of smoke, of natural blends of weed
    Only under one circumstance is if I’m blunted
    Turn that shit up, my clan in da front want it”

    cats need to listen to some true shit

    ps Grand$ that verse was hot
    i want to hear you on a fuckin track

  • Pierzy

    Damn, I’m waaaaaaaaaay late.

    I agree with most people that Em had the best verse but I was actually surprised by Drake’s contribution. I have “So Far Gone” and while it hasn’t been that long, I think his growth from then to now is clear.

    Furthermore, I agree with Dallas’ contention that math, science, grammar and many other factors play a role in music…all music. Dope drop – well done.

  • da23kid

    good post – just to be a dick, em’s lyrics just a tiny bit off:

    line 3 – fuck no, go for broke..

    last line – “…I’m through with this place, so drake…”

    I’m sure everybody gives a fuck!

  • Federal Ranga

    Everybody make sure you hit up my link on myspace or youtube and become a part of the new movement to bring awareness to the gay community’s contribution in hip hop. I already have Mutada, Tony, and Persian signed up. We need your help to stop the discrimination in hip hop against our people.

    Be Proud

  • alderman j

    The validity of the opionated hypothesis is based on what? Now see what i just did?? I used 3 word with at least three sylables (one of them had five) what does that mean?? which is basically what the original statment means. Who gives a damn who used the most multi sylable words, RAKIM: THINKING OF A MASTER PLAN/ CAUSE AINT NOTHING BUT SWEAT INSIDE MY HAND/ SO I DIG INTO MY POCKETS ALL MY MONEY IS SPENT/ I DIG DEEPER BUT STILL COMING UP WITH LENT/ I START MY MISSION LEAVE MY RESIDENTS/ THINKING HOW CAN I GET SOME DEAD PRESIDENTS/ I NEED MONEY/ I USED TO BE A STICK UP KID/ SO I THINK OF ALL THE DEVIOUS THINGS I DID./ NO BIG WORDS HERE, ONE OF THE DOPEST MCS EVER!!! That has nothing to do with rap, this is a POINTLESS BLOG!!! WE MAKE UP REASONS TO SAY EM IS THE BEST RAPPER????OR HE HAD THE BEST VERSE?BECAUSE HE USES BIG WORDS????REFERENCE THE ABOVE!!! ME PERSONALLY I LIKE, /LAST NAME EVER FIRST NAME GREATEST/ LIKE A BROKEN ANKLE BOY IAINT NOTHING TO PLAY WITH/. those two lines are better than any two em spit!!!! IF YOU FEEL IM WRONG PLEASE STRAIGHTEN ME OUT WITH SOME FACTS!!!

    • Around and Around

      I agree with you Alderman J but fuck paragraphs man…and easy on the CAP LOCK.

  • Brian

    No one on here is saying that the more big words you can jam into a rhyme the better rapper you are – that is a simplistic, naive way to look at it. The point is when you get a mega-collabo like this and the issue of ‘who spit the best’ or ‘who has the best verse’ comes up – which it inevitably ALWAYS will, this is ONE of the factors you can use to evaluate. And since this is a mathematic way with a calculation, it’s a nice way to break it down – versus people’s opinions on which lines someone likes better up against others.

  • Around and Around

    Under Billy’s little Polysyllabic theory then the following statement holds true and anyone who disagree’s is a dumb shit assfuck. You stupid ass faggoty faggot…

    “The Nation of Islam is the best rap group in History”

    -Brothers of the motherland the rightious brother Honerable Elijah Muhmammed has come for salvation of the perperation of persperation left by Christian cracker dogma of injustice….

    Check that Polysyllabic count! That’s a hot ass Bar.

    Mosque #7 ass nigga gtfoh every time you try and be all scinece orientated you stay losing.

    Stick to big upping Slaughterhouse, and ridding Budden Dick.

  • capcobra

    WHAT IS THIS……A BARBERSHOP? {shouts to everybody}

  • jonjon23

    Penn, you would make a member of the K.K.K. pump their fist in jubilation and sing a victory song if they encountered you.

  • Dallas Penn

    You don’t know a damn thing about me. Do your research. Learn to use teh Googles. You are on a gotdamn computer for crissakes.

    Oh shit man, thanks for that breakdown. Jay’s output on ‘Swagga’ was horrible. T.I. pwned that shit (and the Superstar remix as well, maybe I should break that one down).

    You are correct that we can’t be all didactic and say that this is the ONLY way to assess a rapper’s skills but it is a way and I will use it.

    I’m loving how the niggers that hated on science and math’s relationship to art have shut the fux up. Maybe they went online and read a copy of Dædalus? I doubt it tho’. Ha.

    • Around and Around

      You been philosophizing for too long in Mosque #7 step back into the real world.

      Stars moons quasar’s motha fucka sound like elroy jetson.

  • Federal Ranga

    Good drop, DP.

    Em destroys this track hands down. Grand$, my nigga!!! Still killin em softly.

    @ my copy…
    Get off my nuts… you can’t stop me. But its great to know I aggravate you THAT much.

    E7 up! biatch!
    Death of Bullshit freestyle up. Do sumpin

  • Roger Ebert

    Just imagine this old ass ninja mean mugging his computer, thinking to himself, “oh shit, I’ma count how many syllables this dude had to calculate who had the best verse!”


  • these posts are racist

    Now i can’t post my response to Tony Sham…nice, cheat to win.

    • these posts are racist

      Wow. You post this, but not my last rhyme??? Tony Sham and and No G Matt Herbz…nice, your boy cheated for you.

      • Tony Grands

        You know damn well nobody’s blocking your comments. Same shit happened to me when we were discussing that topic the other evening.

        Don’t take it so seriously, man. It’s all good. Just killing time on a boring friday afternoon…

        • these posts are racist


          No doubt, it’s all fun. But why are my comments about my comments not posting showing up? I spit a hot rhyme man and it won’t post!

        • Tony Grands

          Either way TPAR, respect homie.

        • these posts are racist

          Same to you bro…I wouldn’t be so worked up about my last rhyme not going through if you didn’t have so many killer lines. It’s all respect and hip hop…Glad you can spar and shake hands at the end.

        • OG Matt Herbz

          @ TPAR

          Relax, fucka…

          Haha, for real, no harm no foul.

          Here’s hoping my last shot at you gets past the comment-police. I posted it at around 3:57pm Eastern in the thread above.

          Fuck the dumb shit, everybody have a chill weekend. Herbz is out this piece.

          –OG Matt Herbz–

  • jonjon23

    Penn: I only know what you type. Maybe you are just pretending to be a mental midget–you are doing an excellent job at it if you are.

  • johnny

    Dope post ! this is how it should read!!!

  • http://xxl All Dae

    This is the best comment section eva. Yall my niggaz man….yall my niggaz.

    Thank you Dallas Penn for writing out the lyrics…a tru hip hop head move.

    “u just the beer bottle in menace, 40 and broke”(in DJ Kay Slay voice…Goooood Daaammm)

    Yall got Herbz and Grand$ and TPAR wiling out…shiiiieeeeeettt.

    We just need Ron Mex to weight in to make the cipher complete.

    I’ll bore yall with my 2 cent…I say this song is a classic. If a gun was to my head and I had to chose I’d say Em killed it..then Kanye…then Drizzy…then the Martian(who does belong on here)

    I think m.c.s need a balance of science and art. Just have fun and make good music but…it is work and you have to ride the beat and show some form skill and wordplay as Dallas pointed out.

    Biggie got away with rhyming the same words at the end of the 4 count cause that was his tru style. joe blow rapper ending every line with the same word is cheating.

    Lil Wayne is not weaker here cause he may use simple words but he’s saying something so i’m getting a image in my head. Remember Big L used simple words to convey so much. example “I’ll break a goon like a plastic spoon” simple but effective.

    Balance is the key. You have to deliver correct yes but have fun and you’ll come off dope like A Tribe Called Quest who made riding the beat sound easy and effortless.

    Peace and I’m out…

  • DV8

    really tho….this song is alright (not amazing/ mindblowing) its just ok in my book.

  • yoprince

    if you really think counting syllables and words is the best way of determining the overall quality of a verse… you’re a sad individual.

    AT BEST, that process can determine which verse is the most complex. and even that’s debatable.

    there’s so many other factors. there’s breath control, poetic elements such as metaphors, similes, alliteration, rhyme scheme (internal and external), there’s imagery, flow, content, and the overall feeling you get from the verse.

    yes, eminem is an amazing rapper. always was. always will be. from a technical standpoint, he will murder just about anybody on a track.

    but wayne is really the antithesis of all that and that’s what people (sans internet haters) love about him. in a word, he’s zany. ever since lollipop, he stopped following the rules and developed his own style. he employs a stream of consciousness style and NO, he doesn’t always stick on topic but it’s a style all his own, and it’s authentic to his character.

    em killed this, true. as someone stated earlier in another post i think, he “chased the beat” with his flow, which was pretty remarkable b/c he’s the only one who did that.

    on the other hand, the most memorable lines came from the other three rappers. so what does that say?

  • KingDee2007

    Eminem verse was hot because he stayed on topic, but u can’t doubt Drake verse wasn’t hot either. He stay on topic and kept the bar high for Kanye. Kanye was talkin about the he doesn’t want the limelight forever. Lil wayne ummm i’ma leave him alone in his space. No Em did come hard, but Drake barely beat. Yall say Em went fast and had better Polysyballic (WTF) so whoever have the highest one has best verse?? hell no. WHoever stays on topic, with word structure, wordplay, punchlines in it has the best veres and drake had..

    MY Order

  • Montie

    Drake’s verse wasnt as bad as the author made it out to be.