Hip-Hop comes to the Middle East

For whatever reason, the Chinese joint where I go to cop chicken wings and fied lice keeps issues of magazines like Business Week and the Economist in the area where you sit while they’re out back butchering the cat or whatever.

Why they would assume people who cop Chinese take-out would be interesting in reading about complex business issues is beyond me. But my guess is that maybe one of the Chinamen who works there gets them to his house and then brings them to work when he’s done with them. As stingy as those mofos are with soy sauce and what have you, I’m sure he figures that’s a lot cheaper than actually getting subscriptions to People and Highlights for Children (not to be confused with XXL), like you might see in a dentist’s office.

Oddly enough, I see stories all the time in Business Week and even the Economist that I think might be interesting to discuss on this site. But then I get home, and that MSG-induced -itis kicks in, and I forget all about it. The other day though, I read a story I couldn’t possibly forget. It involved what could very well be the most contentious issue in hip-hop other than a black woman’s personal appearance: terrorism. Er, I mean Islam.

According to a story in a few weeks-old issue of Business Week, MTV recently launched a station in the Middle East called MTV Arabia. And wouldn’t you know, the flagship show on this station is a hip-hop show, hosted by some guy I’ve never heard of and also Fredwreck, this Palestinian guy out of California who’s produced records for Snoop Dogg and all sorts of people.

Apparently, hip-hop is remarkably popular amongst the youth in the Middle East. Probably about as popular as it is anywhere. To date, there’s yet to be a rapper out of the Middle East that’s become very popular here in the West, but I’m assuming that’s because – as is the case with hip-hop from pretty much anywhere other than New York – the quality’s just not that good.

In something like four years covering hip-hop and also terrorism on the Internets, the only Middle Eastern hip-hop I’ve ever heard of is the infamous “Dirty Kuffar” and the damn near as funny “Small Deeds” by Native Deen (peep the bit where they all pick up trash in unison – that’s hot!). In terms of general amusement, I guess you could say they’re two for two.

The thing is, the Middle East is fucking awash with the arm and a leg we pay for gasoline. I don’t doubt for a minute that some of these Arab mofos can make a killing (no pun intended) without actually coming up with anything worthwhile.

And you can see why MTV would be looking to get a piece of that. Supposedly, the MTV here in the states is dead as fucking doornails. Half of the time you turn on MTV these days, they’re just showing re-runs of America’s Next Top Model. Which has basically nothing to do with music. (That’s some ol’ BET shit!) So they’re counting on the Middle East and other unfortunate areas as one of their main engines of growth.

However, you have to wonder if MTV isn’t gonna run into any number of issues trying to separate an A-rab from his money – besides an Arab’s world renowned money changing craftiness. I mean, what would MTV even show in an area where women are still walking around in beekeeper suits? According to the article, programs will be heavily edited for content, and every Friday morning there’s an animated call to prayer. Hmm…

And if this shit does become successful, I wonder with this is all gonna lead to. After all, a case could be made that, as far as media entities are concerned, it was MTV who was responsible for turning MTV into the global phenomenon it is today more so than anyone else. It’s what I watched when I was a kid here in the Midwest. Could hip-hop be the force that brings the Arab world into the modern age, or is it just gonna make them hate us that much more? What do you fruits think?

  • http://www.soundclick.com/sdubb SDUB-google-me

    BOL; What’s the deal with you man? I know what it is you need some pussy, a live in girl friend/boy friend or something. You be on point for 1 post at the most, then it’s back to this bullshit. Everytime I’m on here, you on here. Talking about food all the got damn time (lmao). You either eating, just ate and about to eat again or telling a story that somehow relates to food. Your blogs even smell like fried chicken that why i keep coming back (lol).

    I had to fuck with you. You do it to everyone else. It’s all love. Your add comment button is greasy though.

  • these posts are racist

    You are simply a bigot shock blogger who writes with no substance and is only adding to the racism anti-Islam sentiment that is pervasive and acceptable.

    There are over 1.6 billion Muslims in the world, think about it.

    • http://xxlmag.com Bol

      If 1.6 million people believe in Allah (and all sorts of wacky shit), and I don’t, I guess that means they’re right and I’m wrong. After all, they’ve got the numerical advantage.

      Thanks for opening my eyes to this! What else am I wrong about? Taking a shit indoors?

      • these posts are racist

        Wow. I never said you were wrong and they were right about religion. I never said anything about anyone being “right” or any religion being “right”. I am saying that you reduce a world religion with over 1.6 billion people to being linked with “terrorism”.

        See your comment:

        “terrorism. Er, I mean Islam.”

        • Chris

          http://www.psychologytoday.com/articles/pto-20070622-000002.xml

          Scroll to number 4.

          You’d have to be blind or retarded to not know that the vast majority of the world’s terrorists are Muslims and that if you really break Arabs and Muslims down historically since way past the days of the original caliphs and Muhammad’s bummy ass, perhaps even further than 2000 years ago, it’s clear that Arabs, and by Proxy most Muslims, are fucking assholes.

          Dusty, irritating assholes. I tried, but the record is against them.

          Islam=Terrorism

          If you want to be a reactionary little pissant, than the IRA and KKK are also terrorist groups, but who the fuck cares about them in this century?

          Islam=Worst Religion EVAR.

        • Jason Murk

          Nigga that report said most SUICIDE BOMBERS are muslim, not most terrorists are muslim. That’s a big fuckin difference.

          The link between religion and terrorism is bogus. Gangs of niggas terrorize the hood daily. Crackers shoot up malls and colleges. It ain’t got shit to do with religion. Every race and creed has a handful of fuck ups.

  • maxwell

    OG Bobby J before you even start, please leave your ignorant comments at home with your sick kid whom you can’t buy medicine for. Seriously I’m taking a page from your hero’s book (Dubya), it’s called a pre-emptive strike. You should be happy, there is finally something positive we can take from his time in office.
    As for the article by Bol. With all of those restrictions….. I mean edits, what the hell can they show? Run’s house and that’s about it. MTV is the new education system of the masses. Meaning if MTV shows it , it must be popular and that’s what the masses will think. And since most people are still stuck in a high-school mentality, they will emulate that behavior. In other words, it will help the U.S. because Middle Easterners will want to see Tila’s tits. And trust me, every man in this world will fight for that right!!!

  • http://www.incilin.blogspot.com Incilin

    You (And anyone with any sense) knows that MTV is terrible when it comes to music, and pretty much represents the lowest rung of culture with the programming it currently has. They don’t do anything good for Americans, they sure won’t do anything good for Arabs.

  • Dub Sac

    “Could hip-hop be the force that brings the Arab world into the modern age, or is it just gonna make them hate us that much more?”

    Why is it that you always end your articles with the interesting questions after wasting a lot of time talking shit on ethnic stereotypes? If you started with this point and actually explored it, instead of going for a cheap laugh (or whatever the fuck you’re going for – I honestly have no idea,) you might get people to think, instead of generating an emotional reaction. Way to take the easy way out once again.

  • og bobby j

    Maxwell
    are you getting a perm right now? Soul Glow ass nigga? Get off my dick and make me a fuckin bean pie… chump ass nigga.

    Next – I dont give a fuck what the arabs are watchin on TV. Like it or not, the societal structure and treatment of Women on that side is fuckin fucked. I dont think exposing them to Rap is going to have any negative effect. Anywhere and anyone that values life with such disregard (i.e. sucide bombers) and breed with pure hatred has enough issues….I wonder when Jay-z will be performing in Iran?

    Side Bar – I dont hate Arabs as some of you may think….but if the revolution comes, I’ll kill them first!

    • maxwell

      You know me well. I still think my perm looks nice.

  • these posts are racist

    >>>>>”Could hip-hop be the force that brings the Arab world into the modern age, or is it just gonna make them hate us that much more?”

    Do you really not see how loaded and full of bigotry this statement is? Yuck. Orientalism, false assumptions, etc. [Can the savage hateful Arabs be brought to civilization? What must we civilized people do to teach them.] You have no clue that you have been brainwashed and do not question or critically think about anything related to the Middle East.

    • tombstone

      >Can the savage hateful Arabs be brought to civilization? What must we civilized people do to teach them.]You have no clue that you have been brainwashed<

      Brainwashing into eating this American SHIT instead of delicious plates of sand. Mmmmmmm.

    • http://gooddoctorzeus.blogspot.com DocZeus

      TPAR-

      I’m beginning to wonder if you are just Bol messing around with people because I can’t imagine someone being that thick to realize that Bol is a total satirist.

    • N.O. 4 life

      all jokes aside…i think america might shut down if you combined the two most hated things in america

      an arabain rapper…wow

      • http://goodolelove.blogspot.com/ Hugo

        there’s an iraqi rapper called narcy that’s pretty decent, they won’t let him come to the US’n'A though…

        most people in the middle east are already modern, they mind their daughters havin a saying in whom the wanna marry and such. those people aren’t in power though, and there’s a problem letting people know you don’t actually care about every sentence in the koran. you wouldn’t get accepeted. kinda the same way it’s a problem for a rapper in america saying he rather let the police deal with criminals then himself shooting anyone who trys to rob him..

  • Hopboy

    Hip hop may bring down the Iranian government. Just last week they banned rap music in iran. It would be a great day for everyone, if the U.S government went right up to the border and started blasting 50 cent out of 4 story high speakers into Iran.

  • Fernando

    “What else am I wrong about, Taking a sh!t indoors?”

    ^^^^^^^^^^^

    HA hA ha ha !!!

    Islam is coo coo for coco puffs. Many of them want to destroy everything that does not comply with their way of living. Effing violent fundamentalists that blow themselves up. Looney toon a$$ mofo’s. Nobody wants your violent crazy a$$ religion in their country. You only cause trouble and cry about being oppressed because the so called “minority” of your religion acts a fool. Well TOO BAD! We live in the 21st century, not the 7th. Get used to it. Name something positive that Islam has brought to a country other than reforming Pookie and T-Bone in the State Pen. We dont want our women wearing Birkas, we dont want to eat curry goat, we dont want to transport ourselves to a pre-industrial world, and we dont believe in you pie-in-the-sky dreams of virgins for killing yourself. GO AWAY!!

  • Aem

    Oil is curse for these countries. Not a blessing.

  • Josh

    Highlights is the shit.

    Give me some Goofus and Gallant over a Lil’ Wayne article any day.

    Bol, when you said:

    “it was MTV who was responsible for turning MTV into the global phenomenon it is today more so than anyone else.”

    Did you mean Hip Hop?

    Good point though. What kind of Hip Hop videos are they going to play in the Middle East? Very few videos these days don’t have half naked women in them.

    Lupe Fiasco is about to be a star in Dubai.

    And not just because he’s Muslim.

  • BryanGates

    TPAR YOU ARE A FUCKIN FAG, COME DOWN OFF YOUR HIGH CAMEL FUCKFACE.

  • Ali

    ok if ya ain’t Muslim then honestly shut tha fuck up……that simple…..as 4 Bol, I bet he’d be offended if I called em a nigger that’s all I gotta say…..& speakin of arabs not makin quality music, I bet I can kill half tha game

  • thetwo4

    It ends like this…with a headline on Fox News…

    Hip-Hop Responsible for Terrorism
    (Report shows that rap is music of choice among Arab teens)

    • Fire

      That’s exactly what Fox News would do. I can see it now. This post was pretty pointless, but it still sparked discussion. There’s never a shortage of people who comment on Bol’s stuff, which is good when he’s not hating on rappers. I know Bol’s satirizing this, but for the people on here who don’t know, Islam, as with most other religions, is a religion of peace. The radical side is all that is being shown over here. We have radical Christians that bomb abortion clinics in America and I don’t see anyone saying that all Christians are terrorists. Most religions are religions of peace, and fools get lost in translation and pervert the faith. I’m not even Muslim or religious and I can recognize that.

  • http://xxlmag.com Kane Corleone

    U cannot blame every muslim for terrorism ,if thats the case then blame every black man for selling drugs, teen pregnency ,gang activity.Wait shit they do blame us!! Real talk ya’ll only do that shit so TPAR can take on all of u(no homo)and get your name mentioned,kinda like getting picked out the crowd @ a Don Rickles show.

  • http://www.aninsaneexistence.blogspot.com/ Mental Gymnastics

    You gotta be kidding me man!This is some real “Onion News” type shit man!I read your posts occasionally,I also noticed that you were mentioned alongside of The Moody Metrosexual(AKA Eskay) & Miss Info as the upper echelon of hiphop writers…

    My question is what do they write?LOFL!

    Sorry if I im not giving feedback on this post,it did not take suicide bombers to give me the heebie-jeebies about “muslims”.There are enough Corner Stores where I live to keep me in tune with where they are @ mentally,especially when it comes to Aframs..

    @ Ali
    If you dont like the comments you shut the fuck up,this isnt AL-Jazeera

  • the Beast!

    I really gotta co-sign Fernando!! They need to stop bitching and realize its the 21th century..they way they treat women that aint cool…they need to chill, 4 sure!

    Bol u a funny mofo, hooked up with any white bitches yet? Get a russian one online!

  • BORN IN THE NORTH, RAISED IN THE SOUTH

    Iraq sucks (I’ve been there…)

    … But I digress. Don’t see them showing much American shit on MTV Arabia. Then again, I won’t be watching it or making money off it, so what do I give a shit?……

  • Ramin

    just to let you know: in france and germany most of the popular rappers are arabs.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=srsJPxrviFY

  • egyptian pharaoh

    bol i wanna ask your bitch ass a question you say that islam is terrorism and every muslim in this world is a terrorist o.k so that means that every black man is a pimp who sends his mother and his sister to give head in the streets and every black man is drug dealer and every black man is a throwing gangsign asshole who kills another black man for wearing his not favorite color o.k or every black man is an ignorant terminal materliastic cocksucka if you know what that means who is very happy for wearing a shiny chain on his neck but i know that’s not right and your faggot ass also says we muslims bealive in allah and all the wacky shit and you lil piece of shit what do you believe in a blue eyed
    jesus and virgin mary as the mother of god yeah right but don’t get it fucked up in your mind cause i know you are a cocksuckin douchebag we muslim believe in jesus as one of the most important prophets and also virgin mary as his virgin mother and the quran came with her innoncence as a virgin and jesus is her son when the nazareth savage called her a whore all this tells that you are a house slave who takes orders from his white masters who tells him everything it’s o.k and onther thing hiphop is gonna get us civilized ? like hiphop doesn’t have everything negative in it ar at least most of it and onething muthafucka
    if hiphop is a civilized movement which will make peacefull so how come your favorite rapper said in one of his rhymes that fuck “jehova i don’t wanna go to heaven any way hail mary i never knew her i probably screw her ” and i don’t make sterotypes like you because i am not an asshole like you as i know that there are a lot of black people who are against your fuckin zionist goverment who speaks for the truth and they aren’t all muslims and also not all white people are fuckin savages a lot of white and people of all kind who speaks the truth against what the cannibalistic american goverment and the fuckin israeli goverment did in iraq and lebanon in the last few years anyway muthafucka you are occupying our lands so get the fuck out our lands unless you are a crying scared faggots

  • Timbo

    “Highlights for Children (not to be confused with XXL)”

    That made me laugh out loud. OK, bit really laugh out loud, but do that sort of snort-through-your-nose thing you do when you read something funny in the office.

  • Queenzfinest

    Ive been to iraq (on a 15 month deployment of course!) as well and actualy sat in one of their homes watched some tv you would be surprised…. you think that half the videoos being showed here in america wouldn’t be condoned over there…well ive got news for ya they already are including well known american programming like Bridezillas. they have there own arabic music channels that already follow the mtv format, cute female host wearing a mini skirt and a tank top, male host host with the throwback california surfer look, youth over there just eat that shit up, but in private though to display such things publicly they might have a surprise waiting or them at the front door

  • EReal

    I perdict Khaled will be very popular. Maybe he’ll go back. They’ll probably give him his own show where he can yell to his hearts content.

    Good Riddence.

  • EReal

    You think they’ll have raps about murkin the jews?

    LOL @ The T.I.’s goto MTV Arab.

  • Around and Around

    This shit is just stupid, and anyone with a touch of fucking sense realizes it. Ole Bol with his life experience…wtf you know about the Middle East other than what you’ve learned on Faux News? Guess what the cultures of this vast fucking space you call the Middle East are all pretty different when you’re talking about a Palestinian a Saudi, an Emirati and Egyptian etc.

    So the ‘entire’ Middle East needs to be brought into the ‘modern age’??? Sounds to me like a repackaged shipped out “White Mans Burden” isn’t it?

    People should read Edward Said’s book Orientalism……btw he’s a Christian Palestinian….OMG they do exsist?!!???

  • supremeneckprotector

    The Economist bangs. I don’t even give a fuck about business or none of this capitalism business but if you want to learn what’s going on in Chile or Senegal or Kashmir, ain’t no better place to go. Keep up with the world, bitches!

  • Supreme Neck Protector

    Listen, what are we so scared of talking about these issues? No one should be scared to bring the topic of Islam and its effect on the world to light. It’s not a diss against all Muslims or all of Islam to be pissed off at the way so many Muslims do things (violent things and non-violent things) to hurt non-Muslims because they think Islam is superior. Terrorism is just part of it. If you look at Islamic history, there’s a lot of conquering of non-Muslims and forcing them to be slaves or second-class citizens. I can name a lot of different places where a non-Muslim is kept down, and permanently unequal, or in danger of being killed. Palestinian Christians, Egyptian Coptic Christians, Iraqi Assyrian Christians, Iranian Baha’is, Pakistani Christians and Hindus, Buddhists in Thailand, Zoroastrians… a lot of non-Muslims have it really bad because Muslims are trying to subjugate or exterminate them. It’s not hatred of Muslims to point this shit out.

    And most of them are doing it because they think the Qur’an and the tradition of Muhammad tells them they should do it. It’s an orthodox way of looking at Islam, not a new one. You can blame Whitey for lots of things. Palestinians have it bad. Blacks in America have it bad. But it’s not just white folks who are responsible for slavery, murder, colonialism and imperialism. A peek into the headlines, or the pages of history, reveals that Muslims have just as much to answer for.

    • Around and Around

      Everything you just typed is beyond fucking absurd. There are no Muslims out there trying to ‘exterminate’ another people. Though I don’t deny that there are wars and certain regimes (99% propped up by the US mind you) that do not treat certain segments of their society fairly, this does not mean there is an ‘extermination’ plan, that’s bullshit through and through.

      Palestinian Christians are the original fucking Christians dumb fuck, they’re desendents of the land, they’ve been their since the year 0, and lived in union with their Palestinain breathen for thousands of years. The holder to the key of The Holy Sepuclchre Church in Jerusalam is a Muslim Family who’s responsibitly it is to open the church each morning and lock it each night.

      Tariq Aziz, Sadam Hussain’s right hand man was a Christian….please expain if Iraqis want to exterminate Christians..then why would a top member of Sadam’s cabinat be Christian. Can go on and on with this shit, but your general ass argument is so absurd it falls flat on it’s face from the beginning.

  • these posts are racist

    Supreme Neck Protector,

    Where do I start. Coptics in Egypt are the wealthiest Egyptians, own the most land and hold powerful govt.’l positions. There is absolutely no discrimination or beef between Palestinian Christains and Muslims. (Google Hanan Ashrawi and Edward Said, you dipshit).
    Tarik Aziz, the number two guy under Sadaam was Iraqi Christian (Chaldean). During Saddam’s rule, there was no beef between religious groups in Iraq.

    Not only do Bahi’s and Zorastirans in Iran practice their religion freely and hold important govt.’l positions, but so do Iranian Jews.

    That said, all of the govt.’s of the Middle East are fucked up for a plethora of reasons and many are directly supported by the US and its policies.

    And…with all that said, nothing you discuss (such vauge and uncritically discussed generalizing points) has anything to do with the statement by Byron that Islam and terrorism are the same. This is pure bigotry and a neo-con brainwash on dipshits like you.

  • Rockw3ll

    Once again TPAR hilariously plays in to Byrons hands.

    For someone who seems to essentially educated/knowledgeable you kinda seem like a completely humourless dumbass.

    Just out of interest, are you willing to criticise ANY aspect of the middle east without alluding to it somehow being directly/indirectly the fault of the US?

    Just curious.

  • Supreme Neck Protector

    TPAR, Round and Round,

    I don’t want to start an Internet beef. We’re fruit flies here. There’s no use in us getting mad and polluting Bol’s comments. If you want to discuss this, we should find a way to do it that’s not right here. It’s a waste to just rant at each other in the comments. It makes us all look like fucktards.

    I’m not gonna back down from what I’ve said, though. Tariq Aziz, Hanan Ashrawi, and many other Arab Christians are helping out the Muslim cause because they believe it’s right, but when they do that they’re purposely turning a blind eye to the way ordinary Christians in Arab lands feel. It’s not just the Zionists making the Palestinians suffer. If you read reports of the way Arab Christians are forced to say what the Muslims want the West to hear, on pain of death, you can’t deny that there’s mad discrimination going on. A handful of elite Arab Christians who have it good doesn’t make up for it.

    Copts, Maronites, Assyrians, and other Arab non-Muslims are usually okay only so long as they parrot the Islamic line and they know their place. If not– they’re fucked. You know– sort of like the way Black folks were treated, and usually are still treated, in the United States of America.

    Baha’is, meanwhile, suffer so horribly at the hands of the Iranian regime (the Iranian people are awesome, no beef) that if you say they’re ‘free’, all I can think is that you’re either misinformed, or you want to hide the truth. Baha’is have been tortured and killed, denied acccess to jobs and education, for as long as the religion has existed. And no one in the West even knows what a Baha’i is, so of course no one gives a fuck.

    Zoroastrians, Christians, and Jews in most Muslim lands are fine, and can practice, as long as they never talk about how badly most of them are treated by their Muslim neighbours and governments. There are some Muslim governments that protect Christians, but that’s because they’re less threatening to have around and easy to control. Most of the regimes in the Muslim countries right now are just waiting to be overthrown. Their people hate them for not being Islamic enough, or for “sucking up to the West” (my ass.)

    I can name hundreds of cases of non-Muslims who have suffered, because people who wanted to make them feel inferior to Islam kept them down. Forced conversions, denial of conversions out of Islam, massacres, beatings, all sorts of shit. Not all of this is sanctioned by Islam, but the important thing is that there are people who are trying to make war so Islam is the dominating religion on Earth. And they’re using old, mainstream, orthodox interpretations of Muslim scripture, because there’s lots of ahadith and Qur’an verses and details of Muhammad’s life that make them think it’s their duty as Muslims to do this. To make it so everywhere in the world, Muslims rule, and non-Muslims are kept down. Not killed, not converted, as long as they’re kept down, and Islam is supreme.

    This doesn’t apply to all Muslims or all ways of seeing Islam. If all Muslims were as nice and kind as some of the ones who live in my country, Canada, this would be a better world. The problem is that the terrorist Muslims have very orthodox scripture on their side, and it’s hard for good Muslims to come up with a response.

    Ahmadiyya Muslims, for example, are mad peaceful. They never hurt anybody. But in Pakistan and Indonesia, just like Hindus and Christians, they’re kept down. Or they’re killed.

    Christians in Nigeria. Mandaeans and Yazidis, two little religions in Iraq no one knows about, almost extinct now because Muslims slaughter them in Iraq. Sudanese Arabs who want to kill Black Muslims over there in Darfur. Converts from Islam to Hinduism or Christianity in Malaysia. Muslims in Senegal and Indonesia and Malaysia who try to promote a version of Islam that’s not so tied in with the way Arabs do it. Sikhs in Pakistan and Afghanistan. Hindus and Buddhists in Bangladesh. Hindus in Bali. Bombings of trains and buildings in Europe and India and America. Muslim immigrants in Europe killing Europeans and forcing them out of parts of their own cities, in England and France and Belgium and Sweden and Switzerland and Denmark and Norway and Italy and Germany and so forth. More than 2000 churches destroyed in the last few years alone. Murders of people who say anything about Islam to suggest it’s not perfect. Killings, intimidation, silencing of the people who speak out. And it’s not the fault of all Muslims, but it’s a serious problem. A lot of Muslims want to destroy everything that’s not Islamic, and they say Muhammad wants them to. That’s just fact. It’s not hateful to say that.

    I’m not a neocon, by the way. I hate Bush. I hate the Iraq War. I don’t support Israel. The way Israel treats Arabs is almost as bad as the way Muslim states treat non-Muslims. And they’re an occupier. If I had my way, a country for Jews to live safely would exist, but it would be somewhere else.

    I even believe that Muhammad (SAW) was a prophet. I love him just like I love Jesus, Moses, Krishna, Buddha, Nanak, and all the other prophets of the great religions. As a Baha’i it’s the only thing I can do. But other than the Ismaili sect of the Shi’ites, and the Ahmadiyya, I don’t see a lot of Muslims nowadays who really believe in a Muhammad of mercy and love. That’s just the way I see it.

    If you wanna continue this conversation, let’s not do it here, because we’ll just spam the comments.

    • Around and Around

      Supreme Neck Protector says:
      I’m not gonna back down from what I’ve said, though. Tariq Aziz, Hanan Ashrawi, and many other Arab Christians are helping out the Muslim cause because they believe it’s right, but when they do that they’re purposely turning a blind eye to the way ordinary Christians in Arab lands feel. A handful of elite Arab Christians who have it good doesn’t make up for it.
      ————

      Edward Said was a Palestinian American who was a tenured professor at Columbia University in New York.

      In regards to the rest of your thesis the entire arguement is a joke. Everything you have written is just reitterating a right wing bigotted line. Do you write for Daniel Pipes or just get your information from him?

      Sudan’s Arabs are killing blacks? Have you been there? I guarantee you I can put a Sudanese Arab in front of you along with a Sudanese ‘Black’ Daruree and you couldn’t tell the difference.

      Why don’t you try picking through what your feed, and address it crictally. Just take the Sudan issue, research it, see how it started the sources are out there. It’s not a religous, or racial issue, it’s between Nomads, and farmers, it’s boils down to water land and resourses as 99% of wars do. Even Jimmy Carter said it isn’t genocide.

  • Supreme Neck Protector

    I know who Edward Said was, bless his memory, and I don’t agree with a lot of his scholarship. He got mad at a lot of European scholars of Islam who, if you go back and read them, what they wrote about is exactly what’s playing out in the modern world today. Some of them might have been racist, but most of them were just researching out of interest and writing down what they observed– and guess what? Some of them were right.

    I don’t write for Daniel Pipes. I don’t like him or dislike him, but I don’t think he’s evil. I certainly don’t get all my information from him. And just because a conservative says something, that doesn’t mean they’re lying. I really can’t stand Republicans and almost all other conservatives, but I know better than to assume that just because someone has a bad reputation, they must be lying. Some commentators in America really do hate Islam, but a lot of them don’t, and are just speaking some truths that Muslims don’t want to hear, so they act as though they’re all racists just like the KKK. But they’re not. They’re bringing some small measure of truth to the table. And there’s some pro-Islam commentators who have a lot of good to say as well. I don’t shut out anybody. I just take in information as it comes. A lot of the people who have not-so-nice things to say about Islam are telling the truth, and just because I would much rather believe nice things about Islam, doesn’t mean I can afford to close my eyes. I have to accept it, even if I don’t want to agree with it. They’re not lying, so I have no choice.

    “Edward Said was a Palestinian American who was a tenured professor at Columbia University in New York.”

    I’m aware. He was tenured because he did a lot of poor scholarship to prove that white European scholars were evil and only non-whites can ever say substantive shit about non-white cultures, which is of course true. That’s why if a Black sociologist ever tries to write anything about a social trend among white people, we should always assume it’s racist, and reject it.

    That’s what Orientalism encourages. If you actually read the writers he calls racist, and then look at what actually happens in Muslim countries, you’ll see that a lot of them had accurate things to say. Some of them were horrible bigots– I’m not defending EVERYTHING in their writings– but Edward Said admitted he didn’t know what he was trying to say with the book, he just wanted European scholars of Islam to back off. Never mind whether what they wrote was often true.

    Believe me, I wish this weren’t true. But it is. It’s just fact. I don’t want to think anything about Muslims except that all Muslims are my brothers and sisters and treat them as my equals. But some of them aren’t my brothers and sisters. Some of them want to Islamize the whole world and destroy everything that’s not Islam. And they think the Qur’an and Muhammad say they should. What, I’m not supposed to fight that? Hindus and Buddhists die, Christians are kept down, European countries have Muslims in them who are like “Death To Europe!” when EUROPE LET THEM IN BECAUSE THEY WANT THEM TO HAVE A BETTER LIFE, and I’m not supposed to fight that? What the fuck is that bullshit?

    Like I said– if all Muslims were as nice and kind as some of the Muslims I know, there would be zero problem. But there’s a big extremist Muslim problem, that’s just true, so why pretend it’s not?

    There’s lots of Christians who are evil too. Jews in Israel, for sure. But it’s not as big a thing. Muslims are claiming that the Qur’an, which is supposed to be God’s last message to us all, says they’re supposed to fight until non-Muslims are made to feel inferior, and Islam controls the world. Not kill them, not convert them– just make them live in a world dominated only by Islam.

    Obviously most Muslims across the world don’t believe this, or don’t even know this. But they can’t attack the crazy ones using Islamic teachings, because orthodox Islamic teachings are what the crazy ones use that tell them, “Keep non-Muslims down.” That’s just true.

    OF COURSE I couldn’t tell the difference between a Black Sudanese and an Arab Sudanese. They look EXACTLY THE SAME. But the Arab commanders don’t think they’re equal. If you listen to what survivors say, survivors always report on how the Arab commanders are like, “Kill the blacks, they are black, they have no right to this water and land.” Of course it’s half about resources… and half about race, and who’s a “real Muslim” and who isn’t. It’s a complex issue, and race and religion are not to blame for the whole thing… but it IS genocide. Jimmy Carter doesn’t recognize that Arabs do anything wrong, why should I trust what he says?

    There’s a fine line. You can hate American imperialism AND Islamic imperialism. You can hate Bush AND the Arab bigots. You can hate Israeli murder of Arabs AND Arab murder of Jews. You can hate White-on-Black hate AND Arab-on-Black or Black-on-White hate. You can hate what Israel does to Arabs, AND what Muslims do to non-Muslims. It’s not about supporting one side or the other. It’s about standing up for ANYONE who’s being kept down. Neocons are trying to take over the world; so are Muslims. I support neither.

  • Around and Around

    Look I call you out specifically and you respond with more vast generalizations. And your reason for Said’s tenure is dumb as shit, what were you on the tenure board? Sit in on the meetings discussing his qualifications? Ooohhhh thank you old wise one for letting me know exactly how Said was tenured.

    ” Muslims are claiming that the Qur’an, which is supposed to be God’s last message to us all, says they’re supposed to fight until non-Muslims are made to feel inferior, and Islam controls the world. Not kill them, not convert them– just make them live in a world dominated only by Islam.”

    Again more generalizations…remember when you say Muslims=1.5 billion.

    It’s like arguing aginst America’s wars and saying Christians, or arguing against Israel and saying Jews.

  • Supreme Neck Protector

    Fair enough. I can clarify.

    It shouldn’t be “Muslims are claiming that the Qur’an says…”

    It should be:

    “There are many Muslims who claim that the Qur’an says…”

    Not all. Not even most. But many. In every Islamic community in the world, from Saudi Arabia to Pakistan to Indonesia to Malaysia to Iran to India to Europe and America, there is a small but significant number of Muslims– not all of them, but some of them– who believe these awful things. And what’s worse is that there are hundreds upon hundreds of very well-respected Islamic scholars, in positions of influence all over the world, who back them up. Who make excuses for Muslim crimes by blaming everything on the Iraq War and Israel. Who condemn terrorists because of their timing and methods, not because they think they’re wrong to try to destroy non-Muslim lives. Who use the Qur’an, the hadith, and the details of Muhammad’s life to build a case for why Muslims should never really treat non-Muslims as equals, and should only work to make Islam supreme, everywhere.

    There are HUNDREDS of these people. Possibly thousands. It’s not every single Muslim on Earth. But it’s A LOT OF MUSLIMS.

    Arab money makes sure that peaceful Muslims, in countries like Senegal and Indonesia and Malaysia, can’t compete with the extreme, Arab-sponsored schools. If a little kid in Pakistan whose parents are poor wants to go to school, his only choice is a school set up by the Saudis who will teach him to hate non-Muslims with a passion.

    There are Muslims in every community in the world who hate non-Muslims with a passion. That’s just simple fact. In some cases the number may be larger than others. But they’re everywhere, and they think Allah (swt) is on their side.

    Why are you acting like I’m a neocon asshole for bringing it up?

    Good-hearted Muslims are SCARED SHITLESS. Because they know the crazy ones are the ones who have orthodox scripture on their side, and they don’t want to be caught criticizing the Qur’an and Muhammad. If the Qur’an is God’s perfect word, which can’t be questioned, and Muhammad is believed to be a perfect man, who led a perfect life, they can’t do that.

    They should be able to do that. Fuck, -I- should be able to do that. I only say anything at all because I want the day when Muslims live in peace with non-Muslims, and there’s not Muslims in every country in the world who hate and want to destroy non-Muslims and make Islam control the world, living everywhere.

    Right now there are. Not all of them are violent. Some of them would never strap on a bomb, but they hate non-Muslims and they think the world belongs to Islam. Islam only. They think God loves only Islam.

    There are many Muslims like this. Not all. Not most. But many. And they need to be confronted, and stopped.

    Why is this such a bad thing to say?

  • Supreme Neck Protector

    Oh, BTW, if you want to hear dope Arab rappers: Cilvaringz, Salah Edin, and Euphrates are all pretty good, and Arabesque is fuckin’ dope. Some of them say anti-Israel shit or anti-America shit or whatever, but they’re all good.

  • barbarian at the gate

    these posts are racist-

    As you noted, 1.6 billion indeed, but not getting any more balanced or wiser as the years and centuries slip by.

    Nothing like being a captive audience to the grotesque barbarism & mayhem that emerge daily from the Islamic World.

    • Around and Around

      Backup from the gate: Or you can be a captive audience in your own backyard: Get the fuck out of your shell you slug

      AMERICAN CRIME STATS: (In relation to rest of world)

      Assaults- 2,238,480 [1st of 57]
      Car thefts- 1,147,300 [1st of 55]
      Drug offences- 560.1 per 100,000 people [4th of 34]
      Murders- 12,658 [6th of 62]
      Murders- (per capita) 0.042802 per 1,000 people [24th of 62]
      Murders with firearms- 8,259 [4th of 32]
      Murders with firearms- (per capita) 0.0279271 per 1,000 people [8th of 32]
      Rapes- 89,110 [1st of 65]
      Rapes- (per capita) 0.301318 per 1,000 people [9th of 65]
      Total crimes- 23,677,800 [1st of 60]

      SOURCES: Seventh United Nations Survey of Crime Trends and Operations of Criminal Justice Systems, covering the period 1998 – 2000 (United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime, Centre for International Crime Prevention); UNODC
      Interesting facts on American Crime
      Russia has almost twice as many judges and magistrates as the United States. Meanwhile, the United States has 8 times as much crime.

      The United States puts 0.7 % of its population in Prison – a vastly higher percentage than any other nation.

  • these posts are racist

    Bigot at the gate:

    How do you define the “Islamic World”? Do you know there are an upwards of 3 million Muslims in the US? So is the US part of the Islamic World? Did you know there are millions of Muslims in China? Europe? Islam is the fastest growing religion in the US, Europe and the world. There are Muslims in every continent and country in the world, so is the entire world, the “Islamic World”?

    Did you know that the US has killed over 1 million Iraqi Children since the first Gulf war? Is this barbarism?

    You see, your ignorance only works on those who don’t know…like ‘Pac said, “but I’m knowing.”

  • Supreme Neck Protector

    Barbarian at the Gate,

    You don’t get my blessing. Sure, Muslims do lots of horrible shit, but we have no right to sit back and act like they’re the only perpetrators of injustice. America is responsible for doing tons of bad shit to Muslims and to others around the world. And there were injustices perpetrated by Europeans in colonial times, and presently by Israel as well.

    However, I stand by what I’m saying, which is that it doesn’t matter WHAT America does, many Muslims are gonna hate them anyway, because they think Islam says God hates non-Muslims so they’re supposed to hate non-Muslims and try to make it so Islam rules over them.

    I make no apologies for speaking out about the crimes committed by Muslims. Muslims in Europe, India, the Arab lands, Pakistan, the Far East, Africa, many many Muslims around the world, have treated non-Muslims badly, or killed them, because they think Islam says that’s the right thing to do.

    Sometimes they even try to kill non-Arab Muslims, just for being Muslim but not Arab. Sudan is an example (although it’s partly about resources), and so is what Saddam Hussein did to Kurdistan.

    And other Muslims have mistreated their women, or tried to act like Islam cannot be criticized and anyone who says anything about Islam that isn’t nice should be censored or killed.

    Just yesterday in my country a story broke about a Muslim father who killed his daughter because she didn’t want to wear the hijab. And in England, Pakistan, Malaysia, Nigeria, Iran, and other places, there are converts ou of Islam to Christianity or Hinduism or the Baha’i faith, who have been threatened with death.

    So there ARE serious problems associated with what a lot of Muslims do. And they do it because of what they read in the Qur’an and the other Muslim scripture.

    But America, Israel, and others are not blameless. For sure there are horrible things that happen in Palestine, Kashmir, Chechnya, China, Abu Ghraib, and other places because non-Muslims are killing or mistreating Muslims. The killing of Palestinians, destruction of homes, shooting of kids by Israel, innocent Iraqis and Afghans dead, all this is horrible.

    I don’t make excuses for the horrible crimes of Americans or Israelis or whoever who have done horrible things to Muslims. Those are horrible wrongs. But Islam is not off the hook.

    You have to be fair. You can’t demonize America and Israel and not admit the crimes some Muslims commit because they hate non-Muslims.

    But you also can’t demonize Muslims and not acknowledge the crimes committed by America and Israel.

    When judging politics, you gotta be fair.

  • barbarian at the gate

    Demonize the Islamic community?

    They are engaged & fully responsible for the bad picture & awful PR setting they present both to me and to every other person on the planet.

    That seems to be no broader or greater a ‘demonization’ than I see you cats tacking on the US or Western culture.

    Should we ‘rationalize’ or ‘justify’ the barbarism we see active & spreading throughout the Islamic World?

    Good luck to ‘These posts are racist’ in his never-ending attempt to stack a guilt trip on someone’s back.

    Around and Around- I think the world has a touch more concern bout explosives going off in marketplaces & trains or being cut down by religious fanatics with AK-47s than they do with robberies, rapes, and car thefts, you little toad.

  • these posts are racist

    Bigot at the Gate,

    Good job completely ignoring mine and Around’s comments. Instead of addressing my comments, you simply accuse me of putting a guilt trip on people. Try to answer my questions and respond to my comments directly next time.

  • barbarian at the gate

    Did I speak falsely?

    It is somewhat difficult to jump back into the old high-school debate club mode.

    Bickering & badmouth calling itself ‘conversation’?

    Debate……toward…..what…….end?