Jay-Z vs. Biggie

Going on a year ago, the hip-hop department slash mail room over at MTV put together a list of the 10 Greatest MCs of All Time. As I noted at the time on my own site, it wasn’t that bad of a list (especially by MTV standards) except that the order was all fucked up.

I didn’t object as much to the idea of putting 2Pac on a list of the greatest MCs of all time, but to have him at number two, second only to Jay-Z and ahead of the likes of Rakim and KRS-One was downright laughable as far as I’m concerned.

More bothersome to me was the fact that they had Jay-Z ranked ahead of the Notorious B.I.G. I mean, no one really thinks ‘Pac was a better rapper than anyone else on the list, but I can appreciate his status as an icon. But ranking Jay ahead of Biggie might lead some of the more impressionable among us to believe he’s a better MC than Biggie, which I obviously don’t believe is true, though I wonder what the rest of you ‘bags think.

I bring all this up because I recently came across yet another prominent list that ranks Jay-Z ahead of Biggie in the pantheon of the Greatest MCs Evar. Well, sort of.

Rolling Stone magazine recently put together a list of the top 25 artists from New York evar. It’s not a specifically hip-hop list, but it does include rappers. And since so many great MCs hail from NY anyway (7/10 on the MTV list – or 8/10 if you count ‘Pac as being from NY), it functions not unlike a non-region specific list would, with maybe one or two exceptions.

The top 10 New York rappers evar, according Rolling Stone magazine:

1) Jay-Z
2) Notorious B.I.G.
3) Beastie Boys
4) Public Enemy
5) Nas
6) Grandmaster Flash & The Furious Five
7) Wu Tang Clan
8) Eric B & Rakim
9) A Tribe Called Quest

As you can see, Jay-Z – who came in fourth on the overall list, behind legendary NY rockers Velvet Underground, The Ramones, and Sonic Youth – was once again ranked ahead of Biggie, who was right behind Jay at fifth on the overall list. Other high-ranking rappers included the likes of the Beastie Boys, Public Enemy, and Nas, who were at seventh, tenth, and eleventh respectively.

Hmm…

Last year, I kinda wrote the MTV list off as being nothing more than a typically shoddy bit of hip-hop journalism from a corporate entity (I know, XXL…), but now I’m beginning to wonder if this isn’t a trend: Do more people these days think Jay-Z is the Greatest MC of All Time, ahead of the Notorious B.I.G.?

Like I said before, I definitely don’t think this is the case. Jay-Z is a great MC in his own right, but he only became King of New York after Suge Knight and the LAPD had Biggie assassinated. While it’s true that Biggie’s body of work pales in comparison to Jay’s in terms of volume, I’d say it’s superior in terms of quality. No Jay-Z album is as great as Ready to Die, and I’ll take the 20 best Biggie songs over the 20 best Jay-Z songs any day of the week and twice on Tuesday.

A case could be made for Jay being the greatest, if not the very best, MC of all time on account of all that he’s managed to accomplish outside the studio – from the clothing line to the position at Def Jam to the basketball team and so on and so forth, but I don’t know. Call me a hater, but I don’t know how having all that shit really makes you that much greater of an MC, or even if it should. Judged solely on the basis of his achievements as a rapper, which is what I care about, I don’t know that you can say he’s the greatest of all time.

  • thoreauly77

    thurston moore is definitely a better rapper than jay-z.

  • Fin

    Biggie’s first 2 albums are stone cold classics; lyrics, flow, hits, BIG has to be number one despite only having 2 albums.

  • Incilin

    I really really love Jay-Z, and find myself listening to him more than Big (but prolly only cause his body of work is so much biggger) but I think people are putting jay up there for the same reasons you said about pac; he’s an icon. I mean what he’s done outside the booth makes him sort of an icon, don’t you think? He’s like a mix between the skill of biggie as a rapper and the genius of master p as a busines man. he isn’t the greatest of all time, by no means, but he’s good enough to make a claim possible. but no beloved enough to make it a consensus.

    the rolling stone list is a joke, however. no way beastie boys can be ahead of nas, wu-tnag, tribe, or any of the names thier ahead of anyway.

    • Anonymous

      the skill of master p? is that a joke. f*%& bigge. ha had two great albums and thats it. everyone needs to get off biggies d*$@. he dead if you like him so much just kill your self and chill. other wise realize its statistically impossible to be better than jay. how do you know his next album wouldnt suck look what happend to nas. he put out what could be called the greatest album of all time but other than that hes garbage. untill ofcource the jay beef. which coincidentally gave him a number one album. if biggie wasnt killed during his prime and with out the beef with pac he would just be another rapper. the hell with bigge.

  • aesthetic210

    big is better and imma hov fan fa life but big was dat nigga

  • Che

    top 10? there’s only 9.. bol you can count right?

  • tom

    1st?

  • CAPO

    i agree with this….jus coz ur a billionaire doesnt make u da best MC ever…being an MC is ur skills on da mic not how much of a shitty basketball team u own, the partners u fucked over or a dead ass club

  • http://www.myspace.com/bulldog2 therealwayno

    I think the issue is the criteria for best rapper. Some people think longevity and volume of work is a big factor, some don’t.

    I used to know the entire Ready to Die album word for word. I don’t know a single line from “This is why I’m hot” except for the “This is why I’m hot part.” — Just FYI.

  • http://almostaexpert.com missile 6

    Who knows who is better. Biggie only had two albums, looking back on somebody who is no longer with us give us a better respect of what they did. It also leaves the living at a greater disadvantage. Biigie didn’t have a chance to do a bad album (puffy helping wit that now though), although as a double disc life after death ain’t that tight. A lot of songs could have been kept off of it. Looking at the overall accomplishments is what makes Jay rank higher than Biggie. Really ain’t no best, different times, different beats, different standards of music. Nowadays yall calling cats like weezy the best, and hes far from it.

  • MANNYWORLD33

    TOILET BOL!

    WE ALL KNOW THAT YOUR NOT A FAN OF ANYTHING THAT HAS TO DO WITH JAY-Z SO THIS DOES NOT SUPRISE ME @ ALL. I EVEN UNDERSTAND THAT THIS TOPIC WILL GET YOUR COMMENTS POPPIN’ LIKE CRAZY CAUSE I’M SURE EVERYBODY AND THEIR GRANDMAMA’S MAMA IS GON’ ADD THEIR .2
    I’M A JAY FAN BUT I WON’T COMPARE THE TWO CAUSE’ I’M ALSO A BIG FAN. SAY WHAT YOU FEEL BUT TOGETHER THEY WERE “BROOKLYN’S FINEST” HANDS DOWN!

  • Tek

    The fact remains that Jay wouldnt have a career if Pac wouldn’t have died. And BIG would have been diminished just like what 50 did to Ja-Rule’s career. I will argue that Pac was bigger than both of them at the top of his Death Row heyday.

  • these posts are racist

    Nonsense. Tupac is the greatest rapper of all time, hands down. Go copp Me Against the World and just listen.

  • Pierzy

    No way Jay is better than ‘Pac or B.I.G. They are light years ahead of him and Rakim is in another world. Plus, I think Nas has proved his worth over the past decade as well…

    First?

  • Cheese

    I am definitely glad you came to bat for BIG over the past couple of years Jay – Z stans have forgotten the influence that B.I had on every rapper on the East Coast Bigs Flow word play and the fact that he had no other great MC (and I mean this on a lyrical level) to draw the inspiration that others used to draw from him should be a testament to his superiority as a better MC than Jay. Lets not forget BIG stated he was trying to sell records like Snoop on Ready to Die which lets you know no NY MC was really that relevant until he “kicked down the door waving tha 44″. Plus lets not forget Big is probably the only rapper not to have that second album slump that most rappers face after having critically acclaimed 1st albums much props to HoV the Don and Nas the God, KRS, Rakim, Kane, WU and PE but BIG did it for NY and Rap the best name a rapper he hasn’t influenced if he was still rapping now imagine his slow over some of these slowed up dirty south beats or how gutter he would have got on a Crunk track

  • Fin

    Wayno, I still know Ready to Die word-for-word, and about half the songs on Life After Death. And Tek, by your logic, the most popular/prolific rapper is the best?

  • Shorty DooWhop

    I defintely agree with Bol that Biggie is better than Jay-Z. I’ll be the first to admit I wasn’t the biggest Biggie fan when he was alive but real recognize real and “quality > quantity”! But i’m disagreeing with the most of these list in general. NY is definitely the mecca od Hip hop but every great MC from there doesn’t mean they’re included in the top 10 list. Here is mine:

    1. 2pac
    2. Biggie
    3. Nas
    4. Jay-Z
    5. Rakim
    6. Ice Cube
    7. Scarface
    8. Public Enemy
    9. KRS-One
    10. BlackStar (Mos Def an Talib Kweli)

  • The Dynasty

    I gotta admit Im Jay-Z fan numero uno but from the limited amount of Biggie material we got, Id have to admit Biggie is a better MC. But who’s to say that Biggie wouldnt have put out an album as bad as blueprint 2 or any other bad rap cd. But I think why Jay passed Big is by the sheer amount of quantity he has put out as well as the consistency… Hate it or not Jay is the best rapper alive, all other debates are sadly irrelvant because of the untimely death of two of the greats… BK stand up we got the top two spots regardless

  • Jay Slay

    Hey but you can’t deny the beastie boys they helped pioneer hip hop to what it is today, if it weren’t for the beastie boys and rick rubben’s production would Jay have wanted to do 99 problems?

  • derfla the hus’la

    there’s no answer to this riddle…being the best is very agueble.
    bol lost……

  • My Effin’ Opinion

    The word “greatest” is an opinion.

    There is no right or wong answer to “who is the greatest?”

    You’ll never find the answer. “It’s like a blind man looking for a black cat in a dark room that isn’t there”

  • OLA

    i think biggie was the better rapper, but jay was jus as good, i honestly feel that reasonable doubt was jus as good as ready 2 die so id have
    1 biggie
    2 jay-z
    3 rakim
    4 nas
    5 krs-one
    6 eminem
    7 snoop

  • J.R.O.

    HOV is my favorite emcee… after BIG. So, I’m with you, Bol, you son of a bitch. You compare what the two did outside of rapping and making that classic shit, Jay’s got BIG, ’cause of course, BIG only got to shine for such a small amount of time. Lyrically, BIG was better than Jay-Z. Period.

  • EReal

    Before I even get into it, I wanted to say one thing.

    Big never bit a rhyme and certinley never bit a Jay-Z rhyme.
    Jay-Z still bites big to this damn day 10 years later. In fact, alot of people do, but thats beside my point.
    On the ‘Wouldnt Get Far’ Remix Jay-Z says:
    ‘Isnt this great my flight lands at 8, your flight leaves at 9, my game just rewind’
    Thats a word for word BIG bite.

    How can Jay-Z be better than BIG when he dickride’s BIG’s style and bites his lines on the regular??? Nas already called him out on this in ‘Ether’, but he continues to do this.
    BIG is the greatest of all time, because with the limited body of work he released, his music is still being copied and straight bit off of 10 years later. Thats the sign of a ture legend, or a GOAT.

    Jay-Z is not and never will be better than BIG. He is the greatest.

    1 hunned.

  • The New Wilt

    Bol, That might have been your most non Biased/ and objective opinion concerning Jay. Biggie is still the G.O.A.T. But Jay is a close second

  • The DJ Formerly Known as N-CREDIBLE

    …shouldn’t it be about the musical content and not what they have accomplished in the business aspect of it all…I don’t wanna beat a dead horse but Jay-z gets more credit than he deserves…a majority of his peers feel the same way…no hate involved…just pure facts…this dude had Reasonable Doubt and Blueprint(KRS-one)…that is it…what makes him so great…2Pac is and was the greatest…but if Weezy step his lyrical content up and say fuk the exec’s he could be considered top 5 all time (perhaps number 1)…IF he broaden his horizon…but he still the best out right now…

  • dhd

    All you suckers know who tha best, and it’s Pac, nobody ever had such big a impact on hip hop as he did!! so shut the fuck up you bithces!!!!

  • honky

    Jay might be the most entertaining MC ever…no way he’s better than Big, tho (or NaS or Rakim). He’s like Frank Sinatra…not the best singer, but a grand showman and great artist.

    Big’s got too much depth, both in flow and content, to be eclipsed by Jay or anybody.

  • ThingAlec

    I agree with you here. The guys that made that list got into a big argument over the GOAT. The moved big back because he had such a short career. Well move him back? Sure. But 2 spots back? nu uh. In my opinion Big makes #1. Because in his short career, he rapped about more stuf than most of who were on the list. But Jay has become as he himself put it “the god mc”. He’s rapped alongside a Beatle after all. So in my opinon the top 3 rappers are.

    3. 2pac
    2. Jay-Z
    1. Biggie

    But hey i’d prefere Jay being at #1 than Pac’s overrated ass.

  • Meka Soul

    lil’ wayne should never be included in this list unless he creates the southern equivalent of ready to die, all eyez on me, doggystyle, the fix, etc. [ie a classic album]. a few decent quotables on a barrage of mixtapes does not count.

  • tim

    Biggie is Jay-Z ten years ago. jay will never be better than the original…

    R@D > Reasonable Doubt

    LAD> Blueprint

  • Meka Soul

    words from sickamore:

    ” I got more bang for my buck. I don’t have to write a blog every day to be popular, I don’t have to drop a mixtape every week to stay relevant.”

    frustration with his current status as your understudy, mr. crawford?

  • Port_o_Prince

    …Man I was just on another blog arguing about this. Hlf of Jay-Z fans/stans didnt become 1 till he dropped Vol 2. Thats when he started going real commercial and he started dumbing down his music. U can put Life After Death aginst the best 24 Jay-Z songs since 1997 and BIG would win. With all due respect to J, BIG created the ” Blueprint ” .
    People always argue he only put out 2 classic albums, but i can argue Jay-Z has put out more whack albums. R2D + LAD >>>Jay-Z best albums RD, VOL1, Blueprint, and Black Album.

    But tha GOAT is PAC tho

  • Port_o_Prince

    …Also Ready 2 Die and Illmatic had a way bigger impact on Hip Hop than Reasonable Doubt. I dont know why people can even compare them. Its a classic in its own right but people were not calling it classic when it dropped.

  • these posts are racist

    “If I say a big rhyme, I’m only biggin up my brother, biggin up my bourogh, I’m big enough to do it…” -Jay-Z

    Jay never “bit” off Biggie…you cats don’t understand Hip Hop.

  • G Off

    Jay is number one, no argument. And, it has nothing to do with his business successes or his place in pop culture. Go through the albums, listen to the flow, the lyrics, the versatility in subject matter, cadence, etc. Other people can beat him in specific categories, but no one wins the overall title.

    BIG had his career cut way too short, which makes this argument harder, but he had enough work in to show what he was made of. Second best? Yes. First? Not even close.

    Biggie being the best rapper alive is Puff’s best marketing plan ever. Diddy is the one who started saying it after he died and who wants to argue against the dead? I guess me…

  • LBDII

    I agree that Pac is the best and all you need to do is go buy Me Against The World or DL it whatever the fuck you do. But Jay is much better then BIG. Reas Doubt was alot better then Ready To Die. Plus you all act like Life After Death is that great. Playa Hater anyone? The Blueprint was a classic so was the Black album. Vol.3 damn near classic. Vol.2 was great so was Kingdom come. Vol 1 was so-so and The Blueprint 2 was hit and miss. So say what you want Jay is the greatest because you guys want to rate BIG on what he might of done but not what he did do. Im out.

  • Dr Flav

    I dont see none of them before Big Daddy Kane-RAW, Rakim-MICROPHONE FIEND, Slick Rick-MOMENT I FEARED, KRS1-POETRY or Kool G -WANTED DEAD OR ALIVE/ITS A DEMO. These mid 90 rappers get no credit. Biggie Smalls = Chubb Rock + Heavy D/Big Daddy Kane.

  • Dr Flav

    I dont see none of them before Big Daddy Kane-RAW, Rakim-MICROPHONE FIEND, Slick Rick-MOMENT I FEARED, KRS1-POETRY or Kool G -WANTED DEAD OR ALIVE/ITS A DEMO. These mid 90 rappers get no credit. Biggie Smalls = Chubb Rock + Heavy D/Big Daddy Kane.

  • Dr Flav

    I dont see none of them before Big Daddy Kane-RAW, Rakim-MICROPHONE FIEND, Slick Rick-MOMENT I FEARED, KRS1-POETRY or Kool G -WANTED DEAD OR ALIVE/ITS A DEMO. These mid 90 rappers get no credit. Biggie Smalls = Chubb Rock + Heavy D/Big Daddy Kane.

  • Basssin

    B.I.G. >>>>>>>>>>>> Jay-Z. No arguement. B.I.G. was so good he could paint pictures with his words. He is the most quoted and he only released 2 albums. Does anyone even quote Jay-Z??

    1.b.i.g
    2.pac
    3.Nas
    4.Jay-Z

  • Cortez

    I listen to Jay-Z more than Tupac, Biggie and Rakim. Furthermore, I like his rhyme patterns and wordplay better by a large margin. In fact, I really don’t like Tupac that much to begin with, Life After Death did very little for me, and I listen to Rakim mostly for nostalgia sake. So what? These conversations are pointless. This shit is subjective. There are no unbiased parameters to compare relative “greatness” to begin with. Albums sales? Fanboys? Business ventures? The connection between these things and being a “great MC” can be shown in many instances to be false or, at the very least, non-universal.

    For the record, I have never heard a rapper I like more than Canibus. That and a quarter would get me JACK SQUAT!

  • John Cochran

    To me it depends on what your judging. Jay business wise towers over Big, cause Puff was jerking him. Jay def has more work than Big, because of Pop’s early demise. But lyrically I dont know. I can say I listen to more Jay z than Big only because I was 10 when Big died, so Jay is more my generation. To me though the arguement is irrelevent cause Nas is the best MC ever, even with his few fumbles. Pac comes second because of his impact on the generation and his overall iconic image. So Jay and big are 3 and 4, you pick which is which.

  • Dr Flav

    LL Cool J is GOAT by default. 13 albums, 22 year career, awards and plaques, LL is unmatched.

  • b-ease

    The logic that would make Lil’Wayne the greastest is the same that would elevate someone like Canibus to the same status. Which we know is ridiculous. Wayne spits crazy, but he’s made some REALLY bad songs (yes,even on the Carter 2) and doesnt have anything close to the pantheon of great hiphop albums. I think he’s ill too, but any greatest of all time talk is sheer hyperbole.

  • b-ease

    LL is definetly the GOAT from strictly a longevity standpoint but I dont think anyone would say that he has made the best most timeless hiphop music (not even close). And that’s what being the GOAT is truly about.

  • b-ease

    Big may be Chubb Rock and Heavy D and big daddy Kane but this is a case of the whole being much greater than the sum of its parts. chubb rocked released no timeless music. Heavy d was never taken seriously. And BIG in his prime was similar to Kane in his prime, just not as good. The pathos and storytelling is what elevates him above Kane. hands down.

  • b-ease

    And in case yall couldnt tell, I am in agreement with Bol on this one. BIG is the GOAT. Without question.

  • b-ease

    no offense Cochran, but being 10 when Big died means you have no idea what it feels like to have good hip hop coming at you from all sides on a consistent basis. in the age you grew up in, jay stood so tall because there was no one else close to his height. Big was the contemporary of rap giants at their peak (Wu, Nas, Snoop) and still stood head and shoulders above them.

  • R.I.P.BigBird

    wow…what???….its funny cause when Reasonable Doubt came out in 1996 nobody even cared who Jay-Z was….

    He was considered an understudy to B.I.G….actually Jay bit his whole style..

    I mean Jay used to rhyme-paced fast on some Das Effex sh!t, he switched up when Nas and B.I.G. blew up and where running NY…now hes the best ever?? GTFOH

    Lists like this are made by people who measure a hip hop artist by the one that is least threatening to the establishment and the one that is most visible in terms of the corporate world.

    Jay is a slave to Sony/Universal…there “puppet negro” if you will this is why the white establishment loves him so much..

    Having Rakim at #8, and not even listing KRS, and listing Beasty Boys over Nas should tell you something.

    HIP HOP IS NO LONGER PROPERTY OF THE UNDERCLASS IT IS NOW A CORPORATE PAWN

  • b-ease

    And yes Jay bites off Biggie. Port- prince: theres definetly better ways to honor your man than to use his lines on songs that his kids dont get publishing on and that a majority of people that are listening do not know the origin of.

    But everybody bites off Biggie. For better or worse, the music he made is exactly the blueprint for all hiphop till this day. With just two albums.

  • killaseason

    Big & Jay are my two fav. MCs. Hands down. I’ve followed there careers from the most humble of humble beginnings. I own everything these two men have put out and recite damn near there whole catalogs.

    With all the said…I think…Jay is the better MC. Not taking away from Biggie’s legacy and the things that he’s accomplished in a short time but Big will always have an astericks by his name in the record book. The only category that Big edges Jay on is voice…he, in my opinion, had the best voice of all time…which goes along when judging an MC and Big’s humor was great but Jay’s skill (his ability to rap fast…slow…hit you with the ill Big Daddy Kane couplets..I mean just look at 22 2′s & 44 4′s) his flow is like wa-ter. Everyone always says that Jay didn’t become the “K.O.N.Y” until Big died but let’s not forget that Jay didn’t automatically get the throne. He dropped a so called dud before Vol. 2 came..which he ushered in his own style and made radio come to him. Biggie had the “Puff Factor” which I think down the line would’ve hurt him.

  • Bad Boy Killa

    Man I don’t care about Jay-Z and I really don’t care about Biggie they both are alright but can’t either one of them fuck with 2pac point blank and who ever thinks different is a fag.

  • Starchild

    pac is the greatest ever!!!!!!

  • Notorious A.G.C.

    BIGGIE IS THE BETTER OF THESE TWO…I MEAN WHAT KIND OF QUESTION!? JAYZ STOLE BIGGIES LINES TO MAKE HITS !! COME ON!…BIGGIE HAS MADE 2 INCREDIBLE CDS THAT ARE HELD IN HIP HIP HEAVEN…AND JAYZ GOTS …VOL.2, THE REST ARE BIGGIE RHYMES HE JUST “BORROWED”….MAN IF ANYONE SAID JAYZ WAS BETTER THAN biggie KAN JUST DIE ALREADY!!! FUCK ROLLING STONE MAGAZINE!!! THEYRE ALL WHITE OLD MEN!!

  • Notorious A.G.C.

    BIGGIE BIGGIE BIGGIE

  • sk

    Blueprint(krs-one)??????? You mean Ghetto Music: The Blueprint of Hip-Hop by BDP stop listening too Nas(Ether) on that one. Nas is a kettle calling the pot black he jacks B.I.G rhymes also(Nas the millioniare the mansion)

    co-sign racist on that quote by Jay-Z. And to say who’s the greatest you could lose your voice box/get a headache arguing that one cause all these top MC’s has their strong points/weakpoints and depending on who you grew up listening too. Me personally I like Jay-Z but I can’t really put him #1 only because B.I.G died and I can’t put B.I.G #1 because of that. So I go back to the MC that influenced all of them Rakim Allah as #1 cause he really made dudes step it up some might know what I’m talking bout other’s might.

  • Tmontana171

    1.Biggie
    2. Eminem
    3. Big Pun
    4. Jay-z
    5. Nas
    6. Rakim
    7. Krs-1
    8. Kool G Rap
    9. Big Daddy Kane
    10. Lil Wayne/ Jadakiss

  • The DJ Formerly Known as N-CREDIBLE

    …Weezy has 10 plus years ahead of him…and thats if he decides to retire at 35…Weezy’s lyrical game at 35 wow i cant imagine…

  • pezee the jeteye

    i’m sorry fellow rap fanatics, but yes big has alot of clout cuz he never reached his full potential because of his untimely demise. And yes big hit the nail on the head with his first two records so yes his stats are pretty perfect in some eyes….but honestly people lets compare these guys music, not there status. Lets forget jay is the bill clinton of hip hop right now. Lets forget biggie died, Lets even forget that big was jays big homie!!!! Lets compare music! and if u can honestly say ready to die was better than reasonable doubt than ur pretty much sayien u don’t listen to music u jus skim through it! i mean jay even showed who was who and wat was wat on brooklyn’s finest! R.I.P Big yes, but please do not overate him more than he is.

  • My Effin’ Opinion

    Dr Flav Says:

    March 19th, 2007 at 3:21 pm
    LL Cool J is GOAT by default. 13 albums, 22 year career, awards and plaques, LL is unmatched.

    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^

    I personally think BIG is a better lyricist that anyone else i’ve heard, but Dr. Flav makes a helluva good point. The Average rappers career ain’t suppose to span more than 5-10 years.

    Imma hafta say that LL could in fact be the GOAT.

  • My Effin’ Opinion

    b-ease Says:

    March 19th, 2007 at 3:40 pm

    “…LL is definetly the GOAT from strictly a longevity standpoint but I dont think anyone would say that he has made the best most timeless hiphop music …”

    ^^^^^^

    You don’t think “Rock the Bells”, “I need Love”, “Momma said knock you out” or “Boomin’ system” is timeless???

  • REIN

    B.I.G (Best In the Game). The BEST their ever was, the BEST their is, and the BEST their will ever be. PERIOD.

  • oogaBooga

    damn..yall erasn comments now?? why…what did I say that was inappropriate..tha fuk??

  • oogaBooga

    yo whas up Bol??…people have said worse to you and you post it…I just stated my opinion.
    Come on man, I know you are antiestablishment and dont like censorship…so whats up??

  • oogaBooga

    damn..thats fukd up fam

  • oogaBooga

    damn bro at least post the question

  • oogaBooga

    anybody else have their post’s blocked

  • http://WhoCares... Unabomber

    MJ, Bird or Magic…B.I.G, Jay or PAC. As long as they are in the duscussion for being the G.O.A.T(greatest of all time) then they’ve done something we consider great!! Being second or third to any of the names I mentioned above isn’t bad at all!!

  • The King Fromally Known As Warsaw

    I have bathed in hip-hop itself, and i belive that although there is no reasonable doubt that Big, Pac, jay, and nas are the greatest of all time you must see the facts. Big and pac both were taken from this world too early which leave jay and nas going for the title. Although both men are extreamly lyrical but look whos working for whom. Jay-z has had ten years to fall of and yet hasnt as a matter of fact he is making albums that out sell all the other “hot rapppers” including nas, wayne, G-Unit, Dipset, t.i, young jeezy, and everyone from the west except for the good Doc. I have love for all of them but lets be real.

  • R.I.P.BigBird

    wow…what???….its funny cause when Reasonable Doubt came out in 1996 nobody even cared who Jay-Z was….

    He was considered an understudy to B.I.G….actually Jay bit his whole style..

    I mean Jay used to rhyme-paced fast on some Das Effex sh!t, he switched up when Nas and B.I.G. blew up and where running NY…now hes the best ever?? GTFOH

    Lists like this are made by people who measure a hip hop artist by the one that is least threatening to the establishment and the one that is most visible in terms of the corporate world.

    Jay is a slave to Sony/Universal…there “puppet negro” if you will this is why the white establishment loves him so much..

    Having Rakim at #8, and not even listing KRS, and listing Beasty Boys over Nas should tell you something.

    HIP HOP IS NO LONGER PROPERTY OF THE UNDERCLASS IT IS NOW A CORPORATE PAWN

    *this is not a duplicate*

  • R.I.P.BigBird

    wow…what???….its funny cause when Reasonable Doubt came out in 1996 nobody even cared who Jay-Z was….

    He was considered an understudy to B.I.G….actually Jay bit his whole style..

    I mean Jay used to rhyme-paced fast on some Das Effex sh!t, he switched up when Nas and B.I.G. blew up and where running NY…now hes the best ever?? GTFOH

    Lists like this are made by people who measure a hip hop artist by the one that is least threatening to the establishment and the one that is most visible in terms of the corporate world.

    Jay is a slave to Sony/Universal…there “puppet negro” if you will this is why the white establishment loves him so much..

    Having Rakim at #8, and not even listing KRS, and listing Beasty Boys over Nas should tell you something.

    HIP HOP IS NO LONGER PROPERTY OF THE UNDERCLASS IT IS NOW A CORPORATE PAWN

    *yo go ahead and post this*

  • R.I.P.BigBird

    wow…what???….its funny cause when Reasonable Doubt came out in 1996 nobody even cared who Jay-Z was….

    He was considered an understudy to B.I.G….actually Jay bit his whole style..

    I mean Jay used to rhyme-paced fast on some Das Effex sh!t, he switched up when Nas and B.I.G. blew up and where running NY…now hes the best ever?? GTFOH

    Lists like this are made by people who measure a hip hop artist by the one that is least threatening to the establishment and the one that is most visible in terms of the corporate world.

    Jay is a slave to Sony/Universal…there “puppet negro” if you will this is why the white establishment loves him so much..

    Having Rakim at #8, and not even listing KRS, and listing Beasty Boys over Nas should tell you something.

    HIP HOP IS NO LONGER PROPERTY OF THE UNDERCLASS IT IS NOW A CORPORATE PAWN

    *faggot ass XXL stay taking diks*

  • R.I.P.BigBird

    wow…what???….its funny cause when Reasonable Doubt came out in 1996 nobody even cared who Jay-Z was….

    He was considered an understudy to B.I.G….actually Jay bit his whole style..

    I mean Jay used to rhyme-paced fast on some Das Effex sh!t, he switched up when Nas and B.I.G. blew up and where running NY…now hes the best ever?? GTFOH

    Lists like this are made by people who measure a hip hop artist by the one that is least threatening to the establishment and the one that is most visible in terms of the corporate world.

    Jay is a slave to Sony/Universal…there “puppet negro” if you will this is why the white establishment loves him so much..

    Having Rakim at #8, and not even listing KRS, and listing Beasty Boys over Nas should tell you something.

    HIP HOP IS NO LONGER PROPERTY OF THE UNDERCLASS IT IS NOW A CORPORATE PAWN

    *yeah whateva nigga*

  • R.I.P.BigBird

    wow…what???….its funny cause when Reasonable Doubt came out in 1996 nobody even cared who Jay-Z was….

    He was considered an understudy to B.I.G….actually Jay bit his whole style..

    I mean Jay used to rhyme-paced fast on some Das Effex sh!t, he switched up when Nas and B.I.G. blew up and where running NY…now hes the best ever?? GTFOH

    Lists like this are made by people who measure a hip hop artist by the one that is least threatening to the establishment and the one that is most visible in terms of the corporate world.

    Jay is a slave to Sony/Universal…there “puppet negro” if you will this is why the white establishment loves him so much..

    Having Rakim at #8, and not even listing KRS, and listing Beasty Boys over Nas should tell you something.

    HIP HOP IS NO LONGER PROPERTY OF THE UNDERCLASS IT IS NOW A CORPORATE PAWN

    *glad I dont subscribe to this sh!t*

  • R.I.P.BigBird

    wow…what???….its funny cause when Reasonable Doubt came out in 1996 nobody even cared who Jay-Z was….

    He was considered an understudy to B.I.G….actually Jay bit his whole style..

    I mean Jay used to rhyme-paced fast on some Das Effex sh!t, he switched up when Nas and B.I.G. blew up and where running NY…now hes the best ever?? GTFOH

    Lists like this are made by people who measure a hip hop artist by the one that is least threatening to the establishment and the one that is most visible in terms of the corporate world.

    Jay is a slave to Sony/Universal…there “puppet negro” if you will this is why the white establishment loves him so much..

    Having Rakim at #8, and not even listing KRS, and listing Beasty Boys over Nas should tell you something.

    HIP HOP IS NO LONGER PROPERTY OF THE UNDERCLASS IT IS NOW A CORPORATE PAWN

    *yeah jus cancelled my bros subscription to, spreadin the movement*

  • R.I.P.BigBird

    wow…what???….its funny cause when Reasonable Doubt came out in 1996 nobody even cared who Jay-Z was….

    He was considered an understudy to B.I.G….actually Jay bit his whole style..

    I mean Jay used to rhyme-paced fast on some Das Effex sh!t, he switched up when Nas and B.I.G. blew up and where running NY…now hes the best ever?? GTFOH

    Lists like this are made by people who measure a hip hop artist by the one that is least threatening to the establishment and the one that is most visible in terms of the corporate world.

    Jay is a slave to Sony/Universal…there “puppet negro” if you will this is why the white establishment loves him so much..

    Having Rakim at #8, and not even listing KRS, and listing Beasty Boys over Nas should tell you something.

    HIP HOP IS NO LONGER PROPERTY OF THE UNDERCLASS IT IS NOW A CORPORATE PAWN

    *next up my cousins and my mans and dem next door, they dont even read the sh!tz no more anyway*

  • Phoenix

    eminem, not on the list!!!!! thats crazy
    top 5 are
    1)pac, 2)BIG, 3) Jay-Z, 4) Nas, 5) Eminem

  • don

    jay-z is the best rapper eva to do it y’all niggas need to stop this shit you do because if anyone is better than jay they aint born yet how the hell can you say ready to die is better than any jay album stop that shit jay was the one who gave hiphop the swagger nigga dont write shit down ga ha ha!!!!!!!! y’all crazy we no biggie didnt write shit either and if he were here jay would have to be on his toes but dont discredit the nigga he is the best

  • Dr Flav

    M.E.O. ya dig, Im gonna add Radio, Dear Yvette, Pink Cookies Rmx, Big Ole Butt, Illegal Search, Headsprung, I shot Ya, Phenomenon… Dont let that ladies appeal distract from the fact the man drops bangers. B ease, Chubb Rock paved ground with Howie T, Ya Bad Chubbs, The Two Of Us, You Treat Me Right, a whole lot of that Brooklyn Swagg In There. Heavy D was a commercial giant, thats where the nicely dressed fat guy steez evolved to Big from.

  • GOD

    jay-z could do everything big could do.. and THEN some.. jay-z let you inside the mind of a hustler in a fashion that nobody else has done EVER.. not as honest.. not as captivating.. not as witty.. “whoever said illegal was the easy way out couldnt understand the mechanics and the workings of the underworld”.. thats greatness right there.. these line for line rappers (lil wayne) of the day WISH they could put forth something as deep as the greats did.. but they either havent lived it (which is why all they have are punchlines vs. depth).. or arent good enough to make me give a fuck

    but an opinion is an opinion.. each mans word bonds only him

  • FRENCHY MARTIN

    NOTICE EMINEM IS THE ONLY ARTIST WHO CAME TO PROEMINENCE AFTER 1999 TO BE ON THE LIST. THE CRACKERS AT MTV THINK IF THEY KEEP REPEATING IT IT WILL BE GOSPEL. LAST YEAR ON THEIR TV COUNTDOWN HE WAS #3 BUT HE KEEPS BRICKING NOW (LOL). THEY STICK HIM IN THERE AND OMIT SLICK RICK, KOOL G RAP, CHUCK D AND A GANG OF OTHER EMCEES WHO GOT MORE CLASSICS THAN STAN. I HATE HOW THEY RAPE THIS CULTURE. NAME ONE CLASSIC EMINEM ALBUM. THE ONLY SONG EMINEM GOT THAT PEOPLE SAY IS CLASSIC IS STAN AND THAT SHIT IS AVERAGE, JUST A GOOD STORY. DON’T NOBODY KNOW THE LYRICS TO THAT SHIT LIKE JUICY, MONA LISA, ETC… THIS SHIT IS BOGUS

  • E AKA THE REAL NORIEAGA

    Big Pun > Biggie > Jay-Z they’re all legends though. 2Pac was a genious.

  • WhiteBoyzLuvGunit

    comeon Bol….you know you dont workout

  • WhiteBoyzLuvGunit

    lol..fat fuk, probably a shut in right?

  • WhiteBoyzLuvGunit

    good thing youll probably eat yourself to an early grave before you can do any damage with your propaganda blog…keep censoring people, see if it changes anything

  • http://www.snicka.com SNICKA

    i wonder what bol’s top 20 biggie songs list and the top 20 jay z list would look like? i smell a remix (to this article)

  • South City

    Good points brought up from both perspectives (except the whole 2pac was the greatest, cuz that’s just asinine).

    Jay-Z however, is the G.O.A.T because when all those categories are averaged out, he comes out on top. For instance, B.I.G was the greatest at storytellin’ and delivery, but he just didn’t have the longevity (through no fault of his), and thus couldn’t prove his consistency. Nas probably the greatest at concept raps and imagery, i.e. “One, Mic” with the voice inflection, “I gave you power” personifying a gun, “Rewind” tellin’ the story backwards, etc. But Nas has had some doo doo ass records. His consistency is off. Therefore, because Jay-Z is pretty damn consistent in every category that matters (flow, consistency, story telling, concepts, etc.)he is the greatest rapper of all time.

  • Pancho

    The DJ Formerly Known as N-CREDIBLE Says:

    March 19th, 2007 at 4:21 pm

    “…Weezy has 10 plus years ahead of him…and thats if he decides to retire at 35…Weezy’s lyrical game at 35 wow i cant imagine…”

    YO…I enjoy listening to Lil Wayne…but DO NOT BRING HIM INTO THIS CONVERSATION…until he brings out a classic album at least (where his classic album at?).

    Anyways…

    How about an 18 year old’s perspective (ME!!!…and not an ignorant 18 year-old at that)…

    B.I.G > Big Pun > Rakim > Nas > Jay-Z

    Sorry…BIG got me into hip-hop…Pun could have murdered any rapper in a battle (maybe even B.I.G), Rakim and Nas are lyrical tyrants, and Jay-Z?

    I enjoy listening to Jay…but $$$ and being the business mogul that he is won’t get him the greatest MC ever…give Jay-Z best hip-hop ARTIST …not Best MC ever.

  • DANTE SEVERE

    B.I.G IS THE MOST OVERRATED RAPPER OF ALL TIME.

  • Genius Child

    Taking out the politics and hype. Here is the truth…
    1) Tupac – Not the best flow, but the best original body of work. His work ethic was that of a genius. He is one of the most imitated rappers ever.
    2) Nas-He brought NY back. He gave every rapper including B.I.G. a flow and direction of what he felt 90′s hip hop was. Since 1992 Nas laid a foundation for BIG & J. I think he is lazy at sometimes, but even his mediocre work is better than most best. He is the text book definiton of MC
    3) Big – Big mastered NAS flow and Kool G’s swagger. From that he took NY to another level. Master of the trade. I not impress with his work ethic. Did he love his trade or was this a way to cheddar. Puff still trying to find Biggies work to most a third classic. Dude did not stay in the studio enough.
    4) Jay-z-Great rapper and entreprenuer. Nice original flow. Had plenty of great people (nas, big rakim before him to gather influence.
    5) Rakim-Original contributor to N.Y flow. Innovator. Due prison, Just didn’t stay in the studio to carve a career.
    6) Big Daddy Kane-Lyrical titan. Held crown from 89 to 91 while Rakim was in prison.
    7) LL Cool J Most underestimated and inconsistent. He murdered a lot of careers. Maybe one of the best careers of all times.
    8) Kool G Rap-Infleunced BIG. Original killer style. Horrible career and under promoted
    9) Big Pun -Great rapper with a nice flow and style. Untimely death. What is he was still alive? Man, the industry would be insane
    10) Big L-Flow sicker than Jay-z’s flow. Nice swagger and style. Untimely death prevented him from really poppin off into stardom outside of the underground NY..
    My friends, and PE one said-”Dont beleive the hype. Jay Z is not the greater ever. That like saying Chris Brown is better than James Brown or Micheal Jackson. Big, kool g, and yes Nas laid the way for Jay-z.

  • Genius Child

    Forgive the typos. I accidentally sumbitted it by mistake. I won’t repost the finished edited comment.
    Sorry

  • JMacD90

    If he’s not better than B.I.G. he’s the closest one. Too bad Biggie passed before Jay-z and B.I.G. really put a chokehold on the whole music industry. Jay-z carries on ‘The Commision.’
    R.I.P. Christopher Wallace

  • king blair

    jay is the best cuz he had the opertunity for growth and he cornered the market and cuz big did not have the chance to grow it leads doubt and the jay biting thing is no foul to jay cuz he always shouts out big and on blueprint 2 jay had a good look by puting big on dream just so his fam could get those royalty checks thats love

  • Cubano Link

    Word, they ranked Jay because he had the most video and radio play.Which is whack cuz MTV controls how much play they get.So basicly they made it how they wanted it and noone could say shit.

    and about Weezy…..no

    2Pac wasnt the best rapper.He was important to society thou.He was important to hip hop culture not hip hop music.Although he was still dope Im just saying.Biggie>Pac as far as music goes.But then u gotta wonder, whats more important, the music of the culture or the culture of the music?

  • Cubano Link

    The top 10 New York rappers evar, according Rolling Stone magazine:

    1) Jay-Z
    2) Notorious B.I.G.
    3) Beastie Boys
    4) Public Enemy
    5) Nas
    6) Grandmaster Flash & The Furious Five
    7) Wu Tang Clan
    8) Eric B & Rakim
    9) A Tribe Called Quest

    What was #10?And i thought magazines like rolling stones were obsessed with Run DMC?

  • P

    why do people care what rolling stone thinks? do any of you read rolling stone? Why does their opinion matter?

  • D Mob

    Pac was the greatest…END OF STORY

  • GHGHGN

    BIGGIE IS DEAD .GET OVER IT AND LET HIS DICK GO .JAY IS BETTER AND HAS ALWAYS BEEN BETTER.ONE .

  • Dr Flav

    ^^^^P, personally I dont, nah dont read it on a regular, because cracka ass cracka approval is our raison d’etre (reason to be). Just kiddin, I still cry myself to sleep over the loss of my 48 ct. black vinyl double sided cassette case, stolen in 1991, filled with golden age hip hop.

  • RealFlow

    READ THIS I’M ABOUT TO KILL IT RIGH HURR!!!!

    JAY is cool he’s consistent but he did not make songs that made us feel him like Pac and Biggie did. For example – Big’s intro to Juicy (Yeah, this album is dedicated to all the teachers that told me I’d never amount to nothin’…u know the rest) Big had us right there. Or Pac’s “Dear Mamma, Brenda Got a Baby etc. Jay never had that type of song to make us love him (Song Cry felt short and the closest was This Can’t be Life but Beanie and Face stole the song). BIG and Pac had offical club bangers – songs that male and females dance to not just males and hard females – Big Poppa – How do you wanna. Jay’s closest song was “Show me what you got” It can’t compare.

    Again I say Jay is consistent – numerous number 1 albums, great flows, recognizeable songs. But not Icon status. To put it in BBall terms he’s more like Tim Duncan of the Rap Game” while Big and Pac is like “Jordan and Magic” and will any one feel passionate enough about Tim Duncan to bring up his name in the conversation of greatest of all time. We will all say “Great player but no Magic or Jordan”- nough said

    A MUST READ I KILLED IT

  • Sam

    Biggie was light-years ahead of any rapper in skill, even Nas, Rakim, Pac and Jiggy-Jigga.
    This is my list:
    1.Notorious B.I.G
    2.Nas
    3.Rakim
    4.KRS-One/Ice Cube
    6.Jay-Z
    7.Big Daddy Kane
    8.Kool G Rap
    9.Scarface
    10.2Pac (To be honest, just an honorable mention…)

  • Pancho

    oh sh*t…

    Gotta revise my best of NY list…

    B.I.G > Big Pun > Rakim > Nas > KRS-One >
    Jay-Z

    I feel stupid for forgetting “Tha Teacher”….

  • allnice

    Wow, this is one of Bol’s best posts for real. I am surprised no one did this topic before. But here are my two cents: love it or hate it, Jay-Z takes the crown because he has more songs and time to evolve as an MC. Big was ahead of his time, but so was Wu-Tang, and look how they are no longer a factor any longer.

    The only survivors from that area are Jay, Nas, and Busta Rhymes because they are businessmen and rappers. They all kept changing their image and refining things about themselves to stay on top of their game.

    If you look at the state of Bad Boy, you can tell that Big would have had to leave and his career could have been in turmoil similar to the Lox and Mase or still somewhat relevant like Lil Kim and Faith. But I doubt he would have been on Jay-Z’s or even Nas level because he wasn’t as good of a biter/businessman. Big was more like a pure MC along the lines of Big Daddy Kane and Rakim. I think he still would have been one of the best in NYC, but I think that young cats like 50 and older, hungry cats like Jay/Nas would still have their slice of the Big Apple.

  • http://myspace.com/lowbudgetenviroment Benny ben

    I really don’t get all the madness over Notorious BIG.
    First off he’s not the greatest rapper ever, so let’s stop that talk now. He’s not the greatest in New York either.
    He is in the top 20, but when you really look at it, “Ready to die” was a great album and “Life after Death” was also very good but it did have a number of skippers and probably could’ve just been one album.
    So basically we’re judging him on two albums? I know there is a bunch of underground mix tapes and such that he made while he was living to judge him before anyone jumps into that.
    Also, I’m not going to count that crap that has come out since his death because that’s a joke.

    It’s too bad he was killed, because maybe he would’ve made a bunch of more albums and by now possibly could’ve been the greatest, but I just can’t call him that based on pure material.

    And as far as Jay-Z goes, please…Nas blew him away with Illmatic and continues today. If not for “I am” and “Nastradamus” I would put Nas into the discussion of the greatest of all-time.

    discuss

  • MistaS

    Mark my words, CJ Wallace will be GOAT

  • Malik C.

    I have to agree with South City. Jay may not be the best of all or even any catagory be he is one of the best in each and every one of them. He has longevity which very few rappers can top, longevity in the sense that he still sells throughout his career not still making albums that sell 10,000 when he’s pushing on 40. We all know about Jay’s flow. You have to record sales into consideration to some extent. The variety of subjects touched. Good to bad ratio of albums. Impact on hip hop which is big. If you take all that in consideration Jay would have to #1 by default. For all we know BIG could have put out the worse album in hip hop history for his next album had he been with us still. Me being myself, I couldn’t justify putting him in my top because he only put out two albums. I wouldn’t even say both of those are the best two albums in hip hop history without having to think about it. Hell I would have a hard time saying he had the best album to even come out in 94 with Illmatic being released then too.

  • ThaBomb

    First Why Put A “swagger jacker” Above BIGGIE??? Jay-z Copied almost all B.I.G Rhymes… and you talking about “MC” right!?? Jay-Z LOST the Battle with NaS… So Why can he Still be Above NAS!???

  • b-ease

    My Effin’ Opinion Says:

    March 19th, 2007 at 4:34 pm
    b-ease Says:

    March 19th, 2007 at 3:40 pm

    “…LL is definetly the GOAT from strictly a longevity standpoint but I dont think anyone would say that he has made the best most timeless hiphop music …”

    ^^^^^^

    You don’t think “Rock the Bells”, “I need Love”, “Momma said knock you out” or “Boomin’ system” is timeless???

    ^^^^^^^^^
    I’ll give you “Rock the Bells” and “Booming System” but “I Need Love” is the definition of a song being timeLY and not timeLESS. “Mama Said Knock you Out” sounds corny now. And let’s not forgot all the horrible music he’s made through most of the last half of his carreer. That has to count against him. Percentage wise, Biggie has more hiphop classic songs under his belt. And thats what matters.

  • EReal

    these posts are racist Says:

    March 19th, 2007 at 3:07 pm
    “If I say a big rhyme, I’m only biggin up my brother, biggin up my bourogh, I’m big enough to do it…” -Jay-Z

    Jay never “bit” off Biggie…you cats don’t understand Hip Hop.
    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
    Thats an excuse man. If you take someone’s rhyme word for word and spit it in your verse, thats a bite. I understand that about hiphop. Jay said that because Nas said “how many more big’s rhymes gonna come out your fat lips??”
    That was back when ether was out, what like 5 years ago? As I said earlier, that ‘wouldnt get far’ remix is 07′ and Jay bites BIG on that track, word for word.

  • Dr Flav

    Yep EREAL, its called biting, not paying homage. Ms Wallace and nem’ need that publishing Hov!

  • maxamill

    I THINK BIG WAS THE GREATEST LYRACIST AND PAC WAS THE GREATEST ARTIST BUT TO BE HONEST I ALSO THINK NAS IS A BETTER LYRACIST THAN JAY AND JAY MAKES BETTER SONGS. MY FAVORITE LYRACIST ARE BIG NAS EMENIM AND ANDRE 3000 THEN JAYZ. MY FAVORITE ARTIST ARE 2PAC CAUSE I COULD RELATE MORE TO HIM THEN BIGGIE CAUSE HE WAS HELLA NICE THEN JAY Z

  • http://myspace.com/djerathekid Konflict

    I feel that if B.I.G was here now, he’d be sellin more records than Jay. I dont look at it as a legend thing because he’s dead. Basically any rapper that died is considered a legend.

  • JhonWatson

    Ras Kass is the number one lyricist…..period.

  • JhonWatson

    Let me explain something to ya.
    MC= Someone who can kick rhymes and move the crowd(i.e. stage shows).
    Rapper= Any asshole who has the slightest bit of rhythm and is at least fluent in one language.
    Lyricist= An artist who creates by WRITING and has an I.Q. over 65!!!!

  • http://myspace.com/twerkolator twerkolator

    i challenge anyone who says that jay bites Big’s lines to name one song where the lines he used were the central part or important part of the song…y’all make it seem like without Biggie’s lines Jay’s songs wouldn’t have been hits, or that he was using Big’s choruses or song concepts wholesale….

    in case you dbags have forgotten, Reasonable Doubt (which many people would argue is Jay’s greatest album lyrically and overall) came out before Biggie died and doesn’t have one Biggie couplet on it. y’all act like every Big line Jay used is the illest line evar and every line of Jay’s is weak. if you take every Biggie line out of Jay’s entire oeuvre he wouldn’t be any less of an emcee and you know it, so stop using excuses to mask latent playa-hation.

  • J S-O-T

    neither, how about that.
    i agree that things outside of the studio shouldn’t boost or degrate someones status as an emcee…, but if you think it should then Jay would be number 1, Pac second cuz of the so many ppl he inspired an i’d put Em’ up there cuz there was a time when literally everyone was listenin to his shit. However, as i think an emcees status should be solely determined by his skill on a mic’, i think it’s impossible to say who’s the best ever, all the greats are ill in there own way…..*sigh*, i jus wish DMX had died after the “Flesh of my Flesh” album, then we could put him in contention lol

  • jacquez
  • Fernando

    Ah yes,

    The romantasizing of Biggie continues.

  • Danny

    The real list-

    1)Joe Budden
    2)Eminem (From the first two cd’s)
    3)Nas (Everything prior to the “God Son” cd)
    4)Cam’Ron (I know yall gonna hate but fuck you)
    5)Biggie
    6)Beanie Sigel
    7)Papoose (could be #1 if he wanted too)
    8)Lil Wayne
    9)Termanology (on the come up for that #1 spot)
    10)2Pac

  • loc718

    I hate that people r comparing a deceased mc against the man that took the torch and ran eith it. im from brooklyn and yeah b.i.g is a legend and a icon no doudt about it but jay-z is the best rapper alive period and better than b.i.g only cause b.i.g was taken away from us 2 soon hate all u want but hova is the #1 rapper in the world and i know this because everybody nitpicks things about jay but no rapper was perfect they all had a flaw or sumthin jay is no diffrent but hge is the most complete mc is the history of rap im a mc and the simple fact that he rap entire album without writng is incredible(believe me i tried)and pac is wwwaaayyy overated fo real i mean he was a very good mc but ni66az act like he can do no wrong bottom line jkay-z is the best rapper ever! brooklyn stand up!

  • daesonesb

    as far as being lyrical and flawless with flows, freestyles and all that… big l comes way strater than jay. listen to their freestyles together.

  • fdsdfd

    Why do rock magazines insist on saying Eric b and Rakim, when we all know Eric b didnt do shit. Just put Rakims name down. Beasties boys cant rhyme out of a paper bag with their outdated mother goose rhyme styles.

  • loc718

    twerkolator u said the muthafuckin truth ni66az r jay-z haters so they should just say that because jay is one of the illest mc’s ever if niggaz knew they rap history b4 jay was famous he battled mc’s like gza/genius,dmx/ll cool j/big daddy kane etc and they all gave him his props reasonable doudt is a classic so the fuck what if they didn’t say it then nobody said illmatic or ready 2 die were classics when they came out either one more thing ni66az need 2 stop sayin that b.i.g. death is the reasin jay became the king of hip-hop that sound straight stupid u can’t stop another mans greatness if it’s meant 2 happen y’asll ni66az r hater with limited hip-hop knowledge one!

    1.jay-z
    2.biggie
    3.nas
    4.rakim
    5.2pac
    6.scarface
    7.outkast
    8.eminem
    9.bun b
    10.kool g rap

    the future is papoose brooklyn home of the best mc’s

  • EReal

    @Twerk

    I neva said any of that playa. I said he bites BIG’s rhymes. I didnt say that made him. I didnt say he stole songs or choruses from BIG. I said if you’re the best rapper of all time, than why you hafta bite other people’s rhymes? Did BIG ever bite someone’s rhymes? Did Pac? I was just asking, how could Jay be better than BIG, if he swagger jacked BIG and bit BIG’s rhymes?? I mean dude is still using BIG’s rhymes to this day. Im not taking anything away from Jay and what he’s accomplished. Even Jay said “best rapper alive”. Jay has never said he was better than BIG.
    Thats not latent haterism, thats the truth.

    peas.

  • these posts are racist

    EREAL-

    Yes, Pac (who is my favorite rapper/artist/poet of all time) did quote other rappers…many times, including but not limited to, his song Brin the Pain on All Eyes on Me. “I came to bring the pain, hardcore to the brain….” That’s a method man quote/song. This is normal in rap…especially when the two were friends, as Jay and Biggie were. I take Jay-Z’s quoting of Biggie as a sign of respect. Period.

  • terrell hunter

    i dont think jay-z is at all greater than biggie n any way shap from or fashion!!!!!!! he’s biggies son for god’s sake!! lol then i cant see why melle mel or kool moe dee, or grandmaster caz aint on the list! shit, grandmaster caz is the father of all these “stunt’n” mc’s1 PERIOD!!!! Just as melle mel is the father of all storytelling mc’s,schooly d/ ice-t are tha fathers of the gangster rappers! but n reality’ rakim allah should b 1# 4 real!!!!!

  • EReal

    @Posts

    I know meth used that line, but did he originate it?

    I thought that was an older rhyme from the 80′s or sum shite??

    Peas.

  • http://myspace.com/twerkolator twerkolator

    @EREAL

    i wasn’t necessarily speaking to you per se, just to that whole mind set that some people try to use to discredit jay’s talent. i’m still smarting from all the reckless talk about the whole subject when cam’ron released “swagger jacker.”

    regardless of whether or not jay is the greatest of all time, i’m sure most people would agree he’s a very great mc.

    that being said, if we can agree he is a great mc, it stands to reason that he doesn’t “hafta” use anyone else’s rhymes. when they do all the celebrations of Biggie’s life and career and show the old interviews, everyone asked (including Biggie himself) always speaks about the respect Biggie and Jay had for each other as people AND as emcees. if this is the way jay chooses to honor his deceased friend and colleague, who are we to diss him and say that it’s biting? it’s not like Jay tries to hide the shit and claim the rhymes as his own. he acknowledges what he’s doing. (we’ll never know for certain, but i would imagine Big would be proud.) also, it ain’t like puff, voletta, cease, lil kim, faith, d-rock, etc. are bitchin’ about it.

    i remember when “swagger jacker” came out and i was like “uh…so, what’s the big deal?” i’m a fan of Biggie’s and Jay’s and i know the majority of their lyrics (as I imagine any serious fan would) so “swagger jacker” didn’t really prove anything to me. i already knew all of the lyrics of Biggie’s that Jay spit.

    “swagger jacker” to me only seemed to impress people who were ignorant to the facts, to whom i say shame on them if they claim to be fans of hip-hop and didn’t already know what the song purported to reveal…

    to reiterate, my main point is this: take away every one of Biggie’s lines that jay spit and what remains? still a great mc. in fact, one of the greatest (if not THE greatest).

    just my two…

  • DANJA29

    These kinds of lists are unnecessary at this point, because everybody has their own and nobody’s EVER gonna agree with eachother on the exact order or anything else. It’s always subjective and you’d probably have better luck makin’ a list of who’s NOT the greatest than a list of who IS.

  • EReal

    @twerk

    I feel you homie. I didnt even know there was a song called ‘Swagger Jacker’. I know that sounds stupid, but I’ve never listened to Dipset or Cam, I only heard 2 songs by this dude. H&C and Oh Boy. I was just refering to the way Jay switched his flow up a bit after BIG passed.
    Ive never doubted Jay as an MC, he is a great MC and I was actually one of the people who enjoyed Kingdome Come. (Maybe Im Old, LOL). I just dont see how people throw out GOAT titles to everyone in the game(deserving or not). I aknowledge Jay completely as a contender for that. I guess the better way to say it is that Jay looked up to BIG. Even Jay, IMO, looks at BIG as the GOAT or he wouldnt have said “Best Rapper Alive”. I can see your point completely. I just cant put Jay before BIG because BIG had and still has such influence over his rhymes and styles. Kna Mean?

    Like a buncha people have said, its all subjective to your tastes. IMO, Eminem is the best alive and BIG is the GOAT. Everyone is different, so its an unanswerable questions. I just cant put Jay before BIG in my mind, but I was also a huge BIG fan.

    Great reply tho, good look.

    1 hunned.

  • these posts are racist

    EREAL-

    Honestly, I’m not sure who was the original person to use the “bring the pain…hardcore to the brain” line/rhyme…but I know Method Man popularized it before Tupac used it in his song. And I don’t think anyone in their right mind would call Tupac a…..biter.

  • Randomname

    Jay is the GOAT no question. Yes Big was the Goat up until he was Merked and even at that time pac was on his heels. But you can’t really argue that
    Big’s 2 albums >>> Jay’s 6 dope albums and 2 ok ones

    P.S. as much as I used to liked it Ready 2 Die sounds horribly dated and other that “the what” “me and my bitch” and “warning” is unlistenable at for me at this point

  • Dr Flav

    I stand on mine, biting is biting. If dude want to pay homage, do an album in dedication, its not like he dont have the power. Plus it aint like dude was Big Lifelong friend, they was only cool 3 or 4 years, they didnt meet til Reasonable Doubt. Im from the old school of emcees you dont copy like that over and over, thats called taking an easy route, bite a dope rhyme to make yours better.

  • these posts are racist

    …and let’s be honest. Hip Hop samples songs…the song that sprung Biggie into mainstream was “Juicy”. Did Puffy create that (the hook/beat) from scratch?

  • http://myspace.com/twerkolator twerkolator

    @EREAL

    no doubt…i definitely agree. i think at the time of Big’s death he and Jay were probably each other’s favorite emcees.

    i don’t really try to compare Big and Jay though. i think it just depends on personal preference. they are both great and there are some similarities and many differences between them.

    me and my girl listened to “brooklyn’s finest” twice this morning on the way to work, and neither one of them really outshone the other. at least on this particular song they were pretty much equal imo.

  • MtkSac

    Spoken like a true East Coast dude. ask anyboy in the country outside of the East coast and they’ll tell u. PAC IS THE GREATEST OF ALL TIME. Everybody know hes the onewho put BIG on anyways. Shout out to Biggie, hs one of the best, but Pac is number 1, everyone knows this. do some research.

  • TS

    The Blueprint + The Blueprint 2 + The Black Album > Biggie.

    and people really need to stop jocking Reasonable Doubt as if it’s the only good album Jay has, i haven’t played that one in forever, and his later albums are way better anyway.

  • TS

    later, as in post-crossover Jay-Z, starting with BP. he has way more presence on those albums.

    his Volume series really ain’t that bad though, with the exception of the ish sandwich known as Vol. 1.

  • Dipset

    these posts are racist Says:

    March 20th, 2007 at 2:53 pm
    EREAL-

    Yes, Pac (who is my favorite rapper/artist/poet of all time) did quote other rappers…many times, including but not limited to, his song Brin the Pain on All Eyes on Me. “I came to bring the pain, hardcore to the brain….” That’s a method man quote/song. This is normal in rap…especially when the two were friends, as Jay and Biggie were. I take Jay-Z’s quoting of Biggie as a sign of respect. Period.

    ^^^ lol this nigga said “Quoting” lmao!!! is that what we call biting now in days??? “Quoting??” hahahaha lmfao!!!! “Quoting” that nigga said “Quoting” hahahaha Hip-Hop is funny sometimes lol

  • these posts are racist

    DIPSET

    -Name one rapper who has never quoted another rapper.

  • Josepth Regular

    I’m not sure how old any of these others are but I was in my prime teenage years when Biggie debuted and dominated until he passed and I’ve been in my prime twenties, where I have a better understanding of the music and the lyrics,throughout Jay’s Legendary career. You youngn’s just don’t know. Forget record sales, Biggie was BIGGER than all of them, Jeezy, Wayne, T.I., whoever is suppose to be “popular” or has “impact” these days. Let me state that I enjoy some of these artists music thouroughly.(Gangsta Grillz, Thug Motivation 101, Trap Muzic, FIRE!) “I ain’t hatin’ on the south”, but lets be real for a second, none of these artist who are hot today can even touch Biggie and Jay-Z on a pure lyrical level. I digress…..

    Biggie was everything at once an MC, Lyrical, Gangsta, Unlimited flows, you pick the category in the Legendary MC checklist and everything is in check… except for one detail, Longevity. I can attest that Ready To Die and Life After Death is the standard by which the Bar is set. But Jay’s Body of work cannot be ignored. The man is inhuman, he has more classics than most artists entire catalogs.(Reasonable Doubt, In My Lifetime Vol.1, Blueprint, The Black Album) Sorry kids, Reasonable Doubt stands up very well to Ready To Die. Track for Track they are down the middle in my eyes. But I also acknowledge that Life After Death kicks Vol.1 in the ass, and shows Blueprint 2 for the mess that it was. Hell, some might say none of Jay’s Albums outside of Reasonable Doubt even come close to the Life After. But that what makes this argument so mundane, unfortunately due to the limits on Biggie’s body of work it is unfair to rank either one of them ahead of the other. Watch and learn youngn’s.

    1. Biggie/Jay-Z
    2. Nas
    3. Big Pun
    4. 2Pac
    5. Eminem
    6. Rakim
    7. KRS-One
    8. Big Daddy Kane
    9. LL Cool J
    10. Ice Cube/Snoop Dogg (see Doggystyle+The Chronic)

    SideBar: Maybe I’m OLD too. I enjoyed Kingdom Come, and I can admit it isn’t his best work.

  • http://xxlmag.com DC’s finest

    if u ask a nigga like me, I would Jay all the way because of his consistant skills. I believe if Biggie did not die his career would have ended becuz Puffy’s marketing and producing would have played out. Jay was ahead of his time BAR NONe.
    Biggie and Pac would share second place though. Then Nas……

  • shadough

    “I mean, no one really thinks ‘Pac was a better rapper than anyone else on the list, but I can appreciate his status as an icon”. Its comments like this that piss me off. Alot of peole claim that 2Pac is the most overrated rapper ever and that he had little to no rap skills. Well I think that Pac is probably the underrated MC ever in terms of skill and lyrical ability. No one gives him any respect or props in that regard. True he wasn’t always very lyrical but theres a whole slew of songs in which Pac rips the mic. For example here are the lyrics to his part of the Madison Square freestyle with Biggie and if this isn’t lyrical enough for you i don’t what is.

    “I thank the Lord for my many blessings
    though I’m stressin’ keep a vest for protection
    from the barrel of the Smith & Wesson
    and all my niggas in the pen’
    here we go again
    Ain’t nothing seperating us from a mack 10
    Born in the ghetto as a hustla older
    straight soldier bucking at them bustas
    No matter how you try niggas never die
    We just retaliate with hate then we multiply
    see me striking down the block hittin’ co’ners
    Mobbin’ like a muthafucka livin’ like I wanna
    Ain’t no stoppin’ at the red lights I’m sideways
    Thug Life muthafucka criiime pays
    Let the cops put they lights on
    chase me nigga
    zig-zaggin’ through the freeway
    race me nigga
    In a high speed chase with the law
    the realest muthafucka that you ever saw
    I’m livin’ raw ’til they bury me don’t worry me
    I’m high livin’ like I ain’t afraid to die
    And you could walk a mile in my shoes
    and you’d be crazy too”

  • MB

    No rapper is copied more than PAC. For a list to be made, and PAC is not #1 is down right BULLSHIT! I know all u east coast cats mad that he shitted on u. That appears to be held against him each time a list of greats is made. Nobody has made more relevant music than PAC. Nobody has more hits than PAC. Not Biggie, Jay-Z, or anybody else. Stop Hatin!

  • Dipset

    Ok “these posts are racist” lets call it “Quoting”. Well to respond to your question, Its not about “Quoting” cuz I agree with you thats something everybody does. The problem I have with Jay is he is “Quoting” to damn much!! Plus when you “Quote” most of the time you should shout out the person that originally said it, this way the new generation who don’t know about old songs don’t think they were the one that came up with that line and give props to the artist who simply “Quoted” the other artist. So to recap I think Jay just over did it with all the “Quoting”. Ya Dig??

  • Dipset

    Ok “these posts are racist” lets call it “Quoting”. Well to respond to your question, Its not about “Quoting” cuz I agree with you thats something everybody does. The problem I have with Jay is he is “Quoting” to damn much!! Plus when you “Quote” most of the time you should shout out the person that originally said it, this way the new generation who don’t know about old songs don’t think they were the one that came up with that line and give props to the artist who simply “Quoted” the other artist. So to recap I think Jay just over did it with all the “Quoting”. Ya Dig??

  • MIAMI NIGGA

    BIGGIE IS GREAT BUT ITS HARD TO SAY HE’S THE BEST. FOR EXAMPLE IF NAS MADE ILLMATIC AND THEN IT WAS WRITTEN, THEN WAS GUNNED DOWN WHERE WOULD HE BE?

    ILLMATIC > READY TO DIE

    IT WAS WRITTEN = LIFE AFTER DEATH

    YOU CANT ARGUE THOSE FACTS CAUSE BIG ISNT HERE. MAYBE IF HE WERE HERE HE WOULD HAVE KEPT NAS HUNGRY AND THERE WOULD HAVE NEVER BEEN A NASTRADAMUS ALBUM….WHO KNOWS

    AS FAR AS JAY HE IS THE MOST CONSISTENT COMMERCIAL WISE. BUT MANY OF HIS ALBUMS I SKIP THROUGH. REASONABLE DOUBT AND BLUEPRINT ARE THOROUGH ALBUMS THOUGH.

  • malik7mile

    first of biggie is better than jayz…it would have been a better arguement between pac and biggie if we put jay before big “hip hop is dead”…big and jay is like comparing jordan and kobe…and to all the dummies talkin bout u cant compare the living to the dead is stupid…they are same age….jayz was a rapper when big was alive and big was killin jay on every level…first off jayz rap style and he dont write down his raps,ask him where got that from BIGGIE…now lets compare each artists first two albums…ready to die (instant classic)…. is reasonable doubt better? HELL NAW!!!!!!….2nd life after death and ummm what was jay 2nd album? o yea in my lifetime volume 1 and it dont even compare to life after death….now the only album that jayz has the compares to biggie is the blueprint(5th album) and the black album (8th album)…bigge only needed 2….u will be suprised how many rappers bite a biggie verse and sprinkle it in they songs….i cant believe yall disrespectin big like this comparing him to his protege….but like nas said “I’ve been fucked over, left for dead, dissed and fogotten
    Luck ran out, they hoped that I’d be gone, stiff and rotten
    Y’all just piss on me, shit on me, spit on my grave” thats how biggie feel ~1~

  • in the illa

    what are the top 20 jay songs and the top 20 biggie songs? i’m not so sure i’d take the top biggie songs over the top jay songs.

  • Cubano Link

    ^co-sign @ Miami Nigger

  • RealFlow

    READ REALFLOW’S POST AND COMMENT ON IT READ REALFLOW’S POST AND COMMENT ON IT READ REALFLOW’S POST AND COMMENT ON IT READ REALFLOW’S POST AND COMMENT ON IT READ REALFLOW’S POST AND COMMENT ON IT READ REALFLOW’S POST AND COMMENT ON IT READ REALFLOW’S POST AND COMMENT ON IT READ REALFLOW’S POST AND COMMENT ON IT READ REALFLOW’S POST AND COMMENT ON IT READ REALFLOW’S POST AND COMMENT ON IT READ REALFLOW’S POST AND COMMENT ON IT READ REALFLOW’S POST AND COMMENT ON IT READ REALFLOW’S POST AND COMMENT ON IT READ REALFLOW’S POST AND COMMENT ON IT READ REALFLOW’S POST AND COMMENT ON IT

  • RealFlow

    READ REALFLOW’S POST AND COMMENT ON IT

  • Cubano Link

    co-sign at Dipset, its only Quoting if u say who ur getting the line from.No Name Drop=Biting.Kinda like the difference between rape and sex.

  • Cubano Link

    co-sign at Dipset, its only Quoting if u say who ur getting the line from.No Name Drop=Biting.Kinda like the difference between rape and sex.

  • Cubano Link

    co-sign at Dipset, its only Quoting if u say who ur getting the line from.No Name Drop=Biting.Kinda like the difference between rape and sex.

  • babyboy

    2 pac is way 2 overrated 2 b number 1. only niggas that think they gangsta like him, him and nas r not as versatile as big and jay, they can only make a certain type of sound, which isnt enough in my opinion 2 b the GOAT. BIg taskes n1 for me and jay n3 n 2 bein MOS DEF

  • Cubano Link

    OK I have an announcment…
    AFRIKA BAMBAATAA=GREATEST NY RAPPER EVER.EASY!!!!YALL FORGOT THE GRANDDADDY OF IT ALL!!!!

    My List of NY Rappers:
    1)Afrika Bambaataa
    2)Melle Mel
    3)Rakim
    4)NaS (his classics>>Biggies Classics, although both were fire)
    5)Big L (have we forgotten?He truly never got to shine and reach his full potential, so dont even talk about Biggie not reaching his full potential)
    6)Biggie
    7)Big Daddy Kane
    8)Big Pun
    9)Jay-Z
    10)Kool G Rap

    ^ alot of them yall forgot.Near the end, the order is hard, but all of them are on the list, just hard to decide where.

  • Cubano Link

    and by the end i mean #10-7

  • http://xxlmag.com sdollar

    …B-Boys, but no RunDMC in the top 10?

    When I see a magazine with a so-called “Top 10″list on the cover, I never buy since its a dead giveaway that some writer didnt have shyt to write about that issue. I havent bought XXs, Source, Vibe-rator or Gathered Moss in over a year. Thers never any corny 10 best lists on the beauty of the internet.

  • sk

    Whoa hold on Dipset rappers NOW aren’t “quoting” Jay-Z? Shit some of ya’ll favorite rapper’s biggest songs Jay’s spitting the actual hook. Shit Jay said that sam rostein line. Shit heard that from another rapper in the Let It Rain remix. Shit your namesakes(Dipset) are “quoting” Jay all the time. Man I said this last year ever since Snoop remade “la dadi” rappers just took it from their and just started “quoting” each other. In this song(Hell’s Wind Staff/Killah Hills 10304) some of ya’ll favorite rapper got the title for his diss track . For me this is where I first heard that word. Rappers are gonna continue too “quote” each other.

  • Jones

    That Rolling Stone list is pretty messed up. Beastie boys better than nas? tribe? wu tang? RAKIM? Whatever, stone has always been really biased in their articles.
    As far as the Jay-z best rapper question, I really dont have a problem with him being put on the top of that list because I’ve always thought Biggie was a bit overrated. Ready to die was an exceptionally excellent album but I’d put Reasonable Doubt right up there with it if not ahead of it.

  • Basssin

    Overrated?? Biggie is the Greatest lyrisicist of the tim e and is infintley better than Jay-Z and that if he didnt die bulllshit bout he would release a bad album if he were alive is pure lies….B.I.G. is not a dumbass either. Jay isnt better than biggie. Reasonable was a straight classic..no doubt but Biggie’s ready to die…man. His flow is timeless. Its not a competition. the funny thing is Jay-Z began rappin at a young age…B.I.G. started at 18!!!! Imagine if he had more experience if he were alive..no one would CARE bout Jay-Z.

  • Mr. X

    You can debate lists forever, but the guy who is completely forgotten about is Chuck D. How can he not be in at least in anyone’s top 5?! When Chuck was on top w/ Public Enemy he was spittin great, radical shit about our society that’s relevant today. Most of today’s rhymes are petty compared to his. Chuck’s flow was crazy w/ damn near every other word rhyming. It Takes a Nation of Millions to Hold Us Back is arguably the best rap CD ever cut. It’s criminal that he’s overlooked and underappreciated!

  • Makaveli

    tha fuck is this pac not better then any emcee?

    the fact is if he was still alive gay-z n piggie wudn’t even exist they wud of been runned out like bitches, pac didn’t have to use fucking gay ass punchlines n all that, he was str8 up and dissed on all factual things, its outlawz haters we hit em up on you bitches. Show me a better emcee who move shit like him??
    i got ready 2 die n life after, but they dont get played as nearly as a pac cd, biggie bores me after a few days, i cud bump pac for years n still want more,

    r.i.p. 2pac

  • Sam

    PAC WAS BETTER THEN BIG

  • Sam

    I WISH PEOPLE STOP SAYING BIG WAS BETTER THEN PAC, BECAUSE PAC IS BETTER THEN JAY Z AND BIG, PAC WAS A BETTER RAPPER THEN BIG.

  • Patrick

    I just saw this bullshit list. How is it that Nas is number 5 on the list, he is the best rapper to come out of New York, and you got The Beastie boys over Nasir Jones, now you know that is some bullshit, and why is it that DMX is nowhere to be found on the list, with a wack ass list like this I shocked 50 cent isn’t on it. Y’all could’ve done better. Jay-z isn’t number one, Nas is.

  • Black Ty
  • OMG

    wtf is goin on …..rolling stones saying jay-z better dhen biggie? …wtf? ….if biggie wus still alive …jay-z wud of been a small cat who would be ill but not like biggie …..he wud be like wat lil wayne is compared to jay-z today …….biggie wudnt even giv jay-z an oppurtunity to step up to his level ….like how we say jay is a bussiness man ……but if big wus still alive he wud of been two times the bussiness that donald trump is …let alone jay-z …..and dhen when we talk about lyrics …LOL ..dat makes me laugh man …cus jay-z is a ill dude when it comes to his lyrics….but the songs and lyrics biggie came up wit in the short reign he had ….is untouchable..i cant believe dat rolling stone cud even imagine puttin a artist above biggie on that list …biggie over hov in a heartbeat

  • http://nowhere.com Ro

    Pac is the best and everybody knows it they just hate cuz he reps cali and not NY

  • zee

    as far as big vs pac goes,
    i heard an interview on a mixtape somewhere that described the two sides perfectly.

    when someone says biggie is the goat, its strictly from a rhythm standpoint. his flow was the greatest n like music to your ears.

    when someone says pac is the greatest, its because of the content, relevancy, and the way he pulled from great speakers such as malcolm x and MLK. you could tell he meant what he was saying.

  • saahilio

    As a lyricist, Nas is the greatest. Then Biggie. I think Jay-Z is one of the most overrated rappers ever. I’m not saying he isn’t good and hasn’t deservedly achieved great success – but when it comes down to pure Mcing (what Hip Hop is really about) then u have to say Biggie and Nas are the greatest.

  • Ali

    hahaha cmon u cant be serious Bol…i swear ur tha worst columnist at XXL Biggie being considered legendary is tha biggest conspiracy in hip hop history haha he fuckin sucks ass…..”if i hafta choose a coast i gotta choose tha east…im from there so dont go there…” haha wtf was that??? & ur hatin on 2pac?????? man u cant be serious u shouldnt deserve ur job……every1 thinks it but every1 2 afraid 2 admit it man biggie sucks dick

  • JJ

    ur ugly

  • http://www.msn.com King Ben U Beezy

    Bol hates Hovi! Calm down fatty B.I.G. is the better M.C. at first. Ready to Die can’t touch Reasonable Dought or The Black Album. J got B.I.G. in the long run cause it was meant to be fat ass.

  • XLP

    JAY Z IS AN ICON BECAUSE OF HIS CATALOG AND THE DOORS THAT HE HASOPENED FOR BLACKS, FROMM ADRUG DEALER TO RAPPER, TO BASKETBALL TEAM OWNER TO AN AMBASSITOR TO THE UN. BIGGIEDIDNT GET TO BE THIS GREAT BECAUSE OF THECHOICES HE MADE. YOU CANT SAY IF BIGG WAS HERE JAY Z WOULDNT BE.. IT WAS FATE FOR THE PASSING OF BIG. IT WAS IN GOD’S PLAN FOR BIG AND PAC TO PASS AND FOR JAY Z TO EXCELL. THERE ARE OTHER MCS THAT CAME INTO THE BUSINESS BEFOR AND AT THE SAME TIME AS JAY, YET NONE OF THEM ISASSUCCESSFUL. HE MADE GREAT CHANGES, SOMETHING THAT BIG NOR PAC DID. GIVE HOV PROPS FOR WHAT HE DID AND IS DOING. NOT WHAT HE (PAC AND OR BIG) COULD HAVE DONE IF HE WERE ALIVE. THE LAST THINGS I REMEMBER ABOUT PAC AND WAS SOMETHING NEGATIVE. BIG BEAT UP A PROMOTER FROM NJ AND PAC WAS TALKING SHIT ABOUT JANET JACKSON CAUSE SHE DIDNT WANT TO KISS HIM. YOU PEOPLE ARE LOST WANTING DEAD THUGS WHO HAVE NOT ACHEIVED ANY MORAL GREATNESS TO BE THE GOATS AND TO REPRESENT ROLE MODELS TO OUR CHILDREN. NO OFFENSE BURT THE STUFF THEY WERE INVOLVED IN IS AND WAS POISON. IT WAS THRU RAP THAT I LEARNED ABOUT BLOODS AND CRIPS. IN MY ERA IT WAS PAC TALKING ABOUT GANGS. U SEE THERE WAS AND STILL IS TOO MUCH HURT BEING PUT ON WAX. DO U WANT UR KIDS TO THINK OF THEIRSELVES AS THUGS. IT IS STILL OK THAT ONE OF THE LAST THINGS WE CAN REMEMBER ABOUT BIG WAS THAT HE HAD TO SELL DRUGS TO FEED HIS FAMILY? IS THIS WHO WE WANT TO CALL THE GREATEST? SOMEONE WHO SAYS WHEN ALL CHIPS ARE DOWN SELL DRUGS TO MAKE ENDS MEET. SOME OF U MAY SAY THAT HE WOULD HAVE STOPPED RAPPING LIKE THAT AFTER SUCCESS BUT THAT’S WHEN THE HOOD STOPS LIKING U WHEN UR NOT HUNGRY ANYMORE. AND IF HE WASSTILL RAPPING LIKE THAT AFTER SUCCESS HE WOULD HAVE BEEN FANTASY RAPPIING. OR WITHOUT SUCCESS HE WOULD HAVE BEEN STYLES P, A GUY THATS BEEN RAPPING THE SAME WAY AND ABOUT THE SAME THINGS FOR OVER 10 YEARS. IN OTHER WORDS A BACKWARDS HUSTLER A THIRTY YEAR OLD RAPPING LIKE A 15 YEAR OLD. WHEN UR 15 U CAN RAP ABOUT HAND TO HAND BUT WHEN UR 30 U SHOULD BE TALKING ABOUT BRICKS AND THIS SHOULD BE REFLECTIVE OF UR MUSIC. NOT JUST ABOUT DRUGS BUT WHAT EVER U DO, U NEED TO SHOW GROWTH IN ORDER TO BE ONE OF THE GREATS.

  • T Money

    In terms of pure talent, effortless flow, delivery and story telling ability, it HAS to be Biggie. The fact that he only released 2 real albums (Biggie would never have released an album on the poor standard of Born Again if he was alive) and he is still in this debate is just testament to his greatness. Pac on the other hand was so much larger than Hip Hop. It’s absolutely ridiculous that after being dead for 11 years, he’s still releasing albums( unless you believe he’s chilling in Zimbabwe). I give Jay Z props for making Hip Hop bow down to his rules, but lets not overlook the fact that Jay has only ever worked with the best producers when they were in their prime. Swiss beats, Timbaland, the Neptunes, Kanye West, Just Blaze, etc.. We have also overlooked a lot of his commercial garbage, cos he’s Jay Z. And just to stir the pot, if we are talking about flow, delivery, lyrical content, quality of work, why has nobody mentioned Talib Kweli? “If lyrics sold CD’s, I swear I’d be just as rich and famous as Jay Z”. And If we are talking about longevity, why has no one mentioned Black Thought? More than 20 years and he is still bringing it. Game Theory is arguably his finest work. No disrespect to LL Cool J, but he is the Madonna of Hip Hop. Not the most talented, but he has managed to stay in the game by continuously reinventing himself and smart colaborations. Although Madonna doesn’t lick her lips and show off her six pack in every video.

  • Required

    This same argument always happens every year. It’s played out but my opinion is 1.Jay 2.Big 3.Pac 4.Nas 5.Rakim overall. Why? Jay has two classics, two near classics and the rest are either good or mediocre. While Big could have been the greatest Pac was never as good lyrically tho he was deep. Nas has made a couple great ones and a few bad ones so he’s behind the rest. I think Big can’t be the best based on only two albums. He could have fallen off (which is highly unlikely) or something else but to me 2 albums isn’t enough.

  • N Spire

    Jay-Z is fuckin weak. The only reason people say that he is great because he is really the one responsible besides Puf who dumbed down rap music. Now, he has a million so-called mcs trying to sound like him just to sell an album. The fool is a sucker for money and mothafucks respect him because he has so much money. Just listen to the song “Da Graveyard” by Big L that features Jay-Z. Listen to Jay’s verse and tell me that shit wasn’t WACK. This bitch said “I get around like a wheel”. His rhymes are too concise and he holds nothing to Big and Nas is the best MC of all time.

  • N Spire

    1.Nas
    2.2Pac
    3.Rakim
    4.Kool G.Rap
    5.Kane
    6.KRS
    7.Pun
    8.Ice Cube
    9.Ghostface
    10.Papoose

  • Rizzop

    You have ti give credit where credit is due. Jay has put in work in the game. Its not really fair to BIG, but hes not here, point blank. If he was it might be different, but its just not, but BIG made a bigger impact with a smaller amount of work..

  • MANNYWORLD33

    first off @ ereal: big bit schooly d’s saturday night on LAD” B IS FOR THE BITCHES WHO CANT UNDERSTAND…”

    second I’M LOST CAUSE WHEN DID VOL. 1 BECOME A WACK ALBUM? IT HAD CITY IS MINE(tribute song to b.i.g) WHERE I’M FROM, IMAGINARY PLAYER, YOU MUST LOVE ME, RAP-GAME=CRACK-GAME…ALL SMASHES!!!

    third- jay/big/busta all went to high school 2gether so it’s not like they had just met when they started rappin’.

    forth- KINGDOM WAS A GOOD ALBUM IF YOU LISTEN TO THE PRELUDE(hearing and listening are 2 different things!) THEN YOU KNOW WHERE DUDE IS COMIN’ FROM.
    IF HE WOULDA’ NEPTUNED AND TIMBALAND AND JUST BLAZED THE WHOLE THING THIS WOULDN’T BE A DISCUSSION. the beats were simple so you could focus on what he was saying, and i quote…..
    “[Jay-Z]
    The game’s fucked up
    Nigga’s beats is bangin, nigga your hooks did it
    Your lyrics didn’t your gangster look did it
    So I would write it if y’all could get it
    Bein intricate’ll get you wood, critics
    On the internet, they like you should spit it
    I’m like you should buy it, nigga that’s good business
    Hehe, forget this rap shit I need a new hustle
    A little bit of everything, the new improved Russell
    I say that reluctantly cause I do struggle
    As you see I can’t leave so I do love you
    But I’m just a hustler disguised as a rapper
    In fact you can’t fit this hustle inside of a wrapper
    Back when crack was
    What these pills are, I was a real star
    Complete with real, cars, no video ones
    You can come and set up a camera, let the video run
    And my real life, complete with real, ice
    VVS boulders oh they’re visibly set
    Head and shoulders, my invisible neck
    You see Hova, wasn’t digital yet
    Befo’ Steve Jobs, made the iPod
    Was gettin head, jobs, we call that intimate
    Back when rappers wouldn’t dare play lyrical roulette
    With a automatic weapon I was reppin with a tec
    (Fresh) like (Mannie) be, chain like anti-freeze
    Shoebox full of cash, dealer man hand me ki’s
    Pantries full of Arm & Hammer, don’t take Nancy Drew to see
    what it do, I’m a damn G
    Just sent a million dollars through a hands free
    That’s big money talk, can you answer me?
    Before the answer was a 3
    I was down in Georgetown with a Hoya chick, lawyer chick
    Sure he’s rich now cause he saw the shit, all this shit
    That’s why they call him Hov’, cause he came before all this shit
    Bought a 6, quarter seven, skipped on them quarter eights
    Bought a 9 for non-stop glock work all the time
    Woo! Guess who’s back?
    Since this is a new era, got a fresh new hat
    Ten year veteran, I’ve been said
    I’ve been through with this bullshit game but I never quit
    I used to think rappin at 38 was ill
    But last year alone I grossed 38 mill’
    I know I ain’t quite 38 but still
    The flow so (Special) got a (38) feel
    The real is back, hehehehe

    HOLLA@CHA’ BOY!

  • TIGERREDD

    That list is suspect. 2PAC is the G.O.A.T. hands down. He could flow and make his rhymes felt. Jay Z nor Biggie never had a revolutionary bone in their body or any type of black hope or pride in their raps. Those two kats are “special” as far as artists, but PAC was “important” to our people. He will be remembered long after any of those listed past on this earth. He is a legend, period, point blank.

  • SouthernBelle

    Hold up, did someone just compare Big to Ja Rule? Get the F*@$ outta here!

  • RDL

    “No Jay-Z album is as great as Ready to Die, and I’ll take the 20 best Biggie songs over the 20 best Jay-Z songs any day of the week and twice on Tuesday.”

    As much as I appreciate and love Hov I have to agree with you. Big is still ahead of Jay despite having alot less material than Jay. A decade later most emcees are still trying to catch up to what Big accomplished with his first two albums.

  • Ric

    Half of you so called 2 pac fans didn’t even exist until the beef with big!! Lyrically, pac cant stand next to Jay, Big, Or Nas!!! Look, “Rap” started with lyrics!! Beats, hooks, and all that other shit came after. The only rapper to balance all of the above successfully is Jay-Z!!! He’s been in the game for ten plus years and never fell off!! ever year he has a hit, if not on his own album, on someone elses! There are flaws in everyone elses carreer

    1. Big’s carrerr was too short
    2. Nas fell off after Nastrudamus…( thank god for his beef with jay or it would have been over)
    3. 2 Pac had to create war in order to sell records
    4. most people under the age of 30 has never heard a krs1, rakim, or tribe call quest album. so why are they even on the list!!!
    This is my top 10:

    1. Jay-Z
    2. Big
    3. Nas
    4. Busta Rhymes
    5. Mobb Deep ( Prodigy )
    6. Mos Def
    7. Talib Kwali
    8. Wu Tang ( anyone )
    9. DMX
    10. Jada Kiss

  • cmoney

    BIG IS THE GREATEST JUST FOR YHE FACT HE BROUGHT THE EAST BACK WHEN WE ALL KNEW IT WAS DISAPPEARING FROM HIP HOP. HE ALSO CHANGED THE CULTURE FROM GANGSTER RAP TO WHAT WE SEE TODAY WITH ALL THIS COMMERICAL SHIT. ALL THESE DUDES SHOWING BLINK WASNT REALLY POPPING UNTIL BIG WAS RAPPING ABOUT IT.

  • nia monee

    FYI—all “rappers” QUOTE OTHER RAPPERS! Quoted or not—East, West, North, or South. . .TUPAC was the best rapper of all time!

    I realize that this blog is really about NY rappers, so let me add that, in my opinion (and it’s just that, nothing more), I would say that “lyrically”, Jay-Z nor Biggie, nabs the title of “best NY rapper”.

  • Ashim

    Jay-Z has got the 1 spot, but only because Big’s career was so short. Put Big’s 2 albums up against any 2 of Jay’s, and Biggie wins. But Jay just offered us more. And its not like his albums aren’t great in their own right, I mean Reasonable Doubt is a better album than Life Afer Death every day of the week.

  • Atl’s own

    Ric u full of shit rap didn’t start with the lyrics!

    betta do yo history it started wit the dj jackin other folks beat and an mc puttin extended hooks on them.

    in the beginning it was all party musik!

    by the way the list goes:

    1.Aundre 3000
    2.Tupac
    3.Jay-z
    4.Scarface
    5.Biggie
    6.8-ball
    7.Bun B
    8.KRS ONE
    9.Cee-lo
    10.Big Boi
    11.Nas or Wu-Tang
    12.Ice Cube
    13.MJG

  • Cuban FUCKING Link

    Atl’s own Says:

    March 21st, 2007 at 7:07 pm
    Ric u full of shit rap didn’t start with the lyrics!

    betta do yo history it started wit the dj jackin other folks beat and an mc puttin extended hooks on them.

    in the beginning it was all party musik!

    by the way the list goes:

    1.Aundre 3000
    2.Tupac
    3.Jay-z
    4.Scarface
    5.Biggie
    6.8-ball
    7.Bun B
    8.KRS ONE
    9.Cee-lo
    10.Big Boi
    11.Nas or Wu-Tang
    12.Ice Cube
    13.MJG

    ^ur so fucked in the head…

  • Black Ty

    Yo why my comment still awaiting moderation?

  • http://www.myspace.com/chronikill ROXONE

    “I take Jay-Z’s quoting of Biggie as a sign of respect. Period.”

    And what about his stealing the hook to 99 problems from Ice-T?

    It’s like the difference between clearing a sample and jacking a loop and hoping no one notices.

    Reading you through the convoluted logic of idiots gives me a headache, but suffice to say Big was and is MUCH doper than Jay-Z.

  • yupyup

    there’s no way anyone outside of ny should consider biggie as the greatest rapper of all time. he hasn’t done anything that tupac, scarface, ice cube haven’t done. biggie is the bo jackson of rap. he was good, never had a chance to qualify as the greatest ever.

  • ak47

    i think hov said it best…. if he ain’t better than big, he’s the closest one. whats ironinc is that alot of people got on his ass for sayin that on the blueprint, including nas. and then when we actually go back and think of who is the best, what hov said couldn’t have been more right.

    to say who was the best is more of a personal preference than anything. i think an overall majority of listeners would say hov because they haven’t heard a new biggie track in 10 years.

    i personally would take reasonable doubt over ready to die. real talk, dont hate.

  • Makaveli

    did ATL’s own, juss put andre 3000 the best? hahahaahhahaahhahaahahhaha

  • DADIPLOMAT

    “I see no changes, all I see is racist faces. Misplaced hate makes disgrace for races, we under I wonder what it takes to make this. One better place lets erase the wasted. Take the evil out the people they be actin right, cuz both black and white will smoke crack tonight.”

    The best rappers ever are not from the east.

    Whether you’d like to admit it or not…

    1. 2 Pac
    2. Eminem
    3 Fifty cent
    4. Snoop

    Best M.Cs

    1.Eminem
    2.Jay Z
    3.2 pac
    4.Nas

  • Combat Jack

    I eff’s with both. Imo,

    B.I.G. = Hov.

    Brooklyn Stand Up!!!

  • me

    reasonable doubt= 96….right after pacs death and b4 biggies…. which means he had a classic while big was around…so u cant say it wasnt going 2 happen had the other been alive. but i will apologize 4 jay-z 4 not puttin reasonable doubt sooner… its so easy a caveman can do it

  • these posts are racist

    The truth is: Biggie was the King of New York (as far as rap) and there hasn’t been anyone who has made New York feel and look the way Biggie did.

    Tupac on the other hand was the King of the USA and the world (as far as rap) and there has been nobody that has come close to taking his place.

  • T Money

    DADIPLOMAT is a dumbass

  • Tha Ace

    no one compares to 2pac when you put the whole package together
    that being said nas and eminem (yes eminem) make a case at being a better emcee than Jay-Z and i definetely think biggie was overrated

  • Chad Harper

    I think the problem is most people don’t even remember BIG. All they see is Jay-Z out all the time. BIG’s cd’s are classics! Jay-Z can’t make a good cd. He can make good songs but not a whole cd. And then again whats a Jay-Z song without a BIG line in it??? And the dumbass above me that says BIG was overrated WTF are you smokin? Nobody could put words together like BIG. Imagine if BIG was still with us. BIG had the sickest, nastiest, funniest, flows and everything he said was true. Cuz your truely nobody til somebody kills you…

  • cockguy

    the ace is a fuckin losr

  • http://xxlmag.com E

    Niggaz need to look at the facts and not the hype if you do want to commpare me personally like pac in the span of a year and a half this nigga put out 3 classic albums when its taking these fuck niggas taking 2 or 3 years to get one. my nigga Big was the best lyrically though not as polished as Pac for example Me Against The WORLD . all eyes on me . and Makaveli nigga hands down!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  • Tha Ace

    and ric you a dumbass hip hop didn’t start with lyrics
    those fuckers could barely rhyme back in the day
    rakim was the first dude that came with a complex rhyme cadence
    damn you a foolish fucker what are you 15?

  • ralph

    For the first time i agree wit you Bol…f’ all them list, they done by white boy interns who grew up listing to will smith(they kept him out cause then it would have been obvious) BIG is still the best that evar done it…only comparable to NAS. Even Pac comes distant after Jay. But, So it’s Big, Nas and then Jay gets 3rd.

  • http://XXLMAG.COM Cor

    1.tupac
    2.jay z
    3.big
    4.nas
    5.eminem
    6.jada
    7.dmx
    8.snoop
    9.rakim
    10.ice cube

  • Real ISH

    MY NIGGA NASIR IS BEASTTIN JAY ON SUM LYRICAL SHIT Come on now u gotta put jay behind everybody cuz he bite so many lines he even bit sum on Escoes who he was at one time beefin with come on now that aint no greatest MC

  • Real ISH

    1 NAS
    2 BIG
    3 JAY-Z
    4 RAKIM
    5 COMMON
    thats the truth rite there and every body else is wrong pac was garbage he never had a great album

  • That Dude

    And once again greatness like Scarface (who
    jay has openly admitted was a huge influence on himself). And of course the greatest “game” spitter of all time who is constantly slept on E-40 (who wrote the book on the independent shit)

  • D60

    I gotta ask how do you do top ten NY cats and not have Kool G. Rap or Big Daddy Kane on there and Rakim higher on the list. Cause without no BDK & G Rap would we had a B.I.G., Pun, Raekwon the Chef I mean c’mon lets be real with this if we goin do it. They embodied what NY was at that time.

  • D60

    And big ups to THAT DUDE Face and 40 spits cats thats often overlooked on rhymers list. You really gotta smell what 40 be bringin from his coffee table that tycoon has birthed and coined some of the most noted and used phrases slanguage all of that. “Let me slow my spit down so you squares could understand me” 40 Water been sprinklin the game for many moons nephwews

  • http://prettyprettyrss.info/ Vern Lisk

    I can’t believe I have ever noticed a new site using this a lot of comments in it!

  • http://homediy.terapad.com/ Franklyn

    Now we are talking. Thanks for the fantastic posting.