The Koch Graveyard

As Fiddy mentioned yesterday on the Angie Martinez program, it’s pretty well accepted that Koch Records is where artists go when they can’t talk any major label into spending money on them. I wonder though if it’s really that much worse than being signed to a major label.

For starters, not every artist on Koch is a major label reject – just the vast majority of them. For example, Team Rocket capo Jim Jones bypassed the whole “trying to make it work at a major label” thing altogether and started his career as an MC with Koch Records.

His Hustler’s P.O.M.E. has sold about 300,000 copies since it was released in November, which is hardly a staggering figure, but still fairly impressive by today’s standards. By comparison, how many major label artists sold as many albums in three months last year?

Probably not very many.

Granted, Jim Jones is the exception in the sense that he actually made a song that people like, but isn’t the whole point of being on a major label in the first place to get your song played on the radio ad nauseum regardless of whether or not anyone actually likes it? Correct me, if I’m wrong.

In general, the main argument for being on a major label is that they can promote your album so much better that it’s worth only getting paid $.90 per album sold. But most major labels these days can hardly push anything past a few hundred thousand copies sold anyway, and that’s if you’re lucky.

Lupe Fiasco’s album, to use an example, has been out way longer than Hustler’s P.O.M.E. and yet it hasn’t sold as many copies, despite being one of the better promoted rap albums of the year. What’s more, Jim Jones will make a lot more per copy of his album sold than Lupe Fiasco.

Rappers on Koch Records like to claim that they make $7 per album sold, which sounds like a whole lotta BS to me. But, even if they’re only making half that much, they might still have the better deal. If these major labels can’t promote your album anyway, why pay them for it?

Recommended for You

Around the Web

Best of XXL

  • ksa


  • Incilin

    I’m with ya on this on (Even tho the Lupe bashing seems more out of habit than humor) but I would love it if one of you guys would do some investigave blogging on some Diane Swayers shit and prove how much a Koch artist makes per album. 50 made a great point the other day saying if Koch actually gave $7 a record why wouldn’t 50 just go and sell his shit there. We need someone trustworhty to get to the bottom of this.

  • derfla the hus’la

    Iam not getting into this agian……and yes jim jones will make mo money then lupe but who gets to pay for he’s videos, shows,recording session, promotions and shit?
    ……and doesn’t koch have beef with jim jones wonder what it’s all about it can’t be money tho.

  • Analogue

    Hmm think I’ve seen the same point made before… either on XXL or BC dot C.

    Either way, you’re right. Hopefully the majors are on th way out… I can’t see much point for ‘em any more. Major label = easy to get hold of, low listener commitment = download that shit.

  • EReal

    It just all depends on your deal. I mean theres different contracts for different artists in different situations. I seriously doubt Jim Jones is making 7 a record, but he also said he makes 7 a record AFTER he recoups. Thats the thing, even if you are on Koch, you gotta recoup first, then you make money.
    Hype also dosent mean someones gonna buy your record. I mean look at “lean back”. That shit was on fire for a minute and it still didnt sell. Its about if the people think its a good song, or a quality album.
    People like Jay, Nas, are legends and people know what to expect from them, so they will buy.
    Other artists are hype from their first release, I.E. Game. Now barrin that theres really only 2 major westcoast artists to choose from, Games first album was nice. He hyped his album claimin Dre and all that and people expect to get another documentary(nullus).
    Hype dosen’t sell records if people have heard garbage albums with one or two good songs on them before. If Jim had released a bangin album before and put a little more work into POME or maybe more marketing (a second single???) i think it would easily be a platnum record.
    That being said, theres different contracts for different artists, and some of these artists dont even read them. They get a deal and think they’ve made it and they’re rich now.
    It all depends on how much work the label has to do on the album.
    I mean look at game’s situation. 50 is making more money off of game than he is. Thats an example of using up too many label resources and over extending yourself as far as writing and production, ect.
    You gotta recoup.

    1 hunned.

  • NickeNitro

    It reminds me of the old local independent rap album production line labels like SMG, which used to always take out a 2-page ad in The Source to advertise like 30 records. E-40 and Master P started out there, and that formula did end up making No Limit huge for little while.

    It’s good that there’s a way to avoid all the industry BS, but you have to think radio’s almost always going to remain loyal to the majors since they’re so intertwined.

  • asign

    gotta point…

  • jaguar_paw

    ….bs ass blog! step ur shit up.


    Bol and Ereal have valid points…

    Koch does give u the a higher royalty rate, but can they make u a household name?


    That’s why artists that were previously on majors, go to Koch when their careers are declining to capitilize off the fame they made with the majors…

    Now with major labels, u have the worst financial deal possible 80-90cents per record and ALL expenses (recording,marketing,promotional travel,meals, ur a&r’s meals,etc) are to be recouped on ur 80-90cents!

    So when they’re making $$$, ur playing the how! “get on that stroll bitch”…

    Jim Jones was lucky enough to be attached to a crew (and be figure head at that) that had major label success (Cam, Juelz). So he parlayed his fame from that and the mixtapes to enflate his perception in the general public…



    Not every artist on a major is getting 99 cents a record it just depends who you are and at Koch you can make as much as 9 dollars but like E said you gotta recoup but you can get more to sign if I was to chose I would be a indie instead of a major because if Koch is the graveyard than interscope is the plantation and they all picking cotton for the white man yes boss and stuff Royce DA 5’9 chose Koch over aftermath cuz they was trying to change him in a indie situation you get to keep your masters and keep your self worth cuz if they give you like 2 mill on a major the gonna act like you owe them you don’t keep your name or none of that shit just like the lox diddy had papers on them for like five years if styles p goes to Koch than he can make the music he wants lust like prodigy if that’s the grave yard than why did 50 let him go prodigy said it himself over at Koch he can make the music he wants.


    Thanks for breakin it down EREAL, with out u here explainin shit that’s already been said, we would be lost readin this……..sarcasm.


    Please would someone explain how the fuk 50 makes more off Game’s cd than he does??? That’s fukin ridiculous………it doesn’t matter wat label ur signed to, if ur album is hot, and u as the artist promote urself it will sell. Maybe not platinum but that shit is impossible these days with the internet.

  • da’realestwritin’


  • J.R.O.

    The internet has a big say in this… Why buy a whole album, when all you know that’s good is the artist’s single. I personally don’t fuck with it tho’.

    And, fuck all that 7 dollars a record shit.


    If Koch was so great why wouldn’t someone like 50, Nelly, or Luda being on an independent label to get $7 per album rather than 99cents on a major. Each artists deal differs you just gotta get good lawyers to set you up properly.

  • john cochran

    Lonzo, 50 makes more off of game’s cd than he does prolly from publishing. If you produce or write for someone most of the time you make more than them. Why you think Pharrell always writing niggas hooks?

  • nation


  • Were Read 2 Def

    If anyone cares, I heard fiddy was responsible for Games “Wouldn’t Get Far” video, as far as the budget goes.

  • houston’s finest

    why wouldn’t 50 cent be on koch to get that money? because he wants to be mainstream and we all know he wants to be promoted like a god. the luda’s, nelly’s and 50′s all deserve the “star treatment” and they would be pissed off with koch advertising

  • missile 6

    i’m convinced…..bol is in love wit jenny jones. everytime something negative is said about dipset, bol takes time out to right a crappy blog to defend them. i could care less truthfully how much theses guys get off a record. lupe overall is ten times better than these cats you mentioning. one second its about being real, when it benefits you, the next second its about how much you sell.

  • Fernando

    All I gotta say is that if you buy all your music from Tower records or any other “mainstream” outlet, there isnt much available that you cant just download for free. The West Coast is a perfect example. There is barely any mainstream West Coast artists because all of them are making millions in the independant game.

  • First

    I coulda wrote a better blog on the shitter

  • MoreFish

    Good topic..
    I think Majors are shook about the whole indie situation hence all the panic.
    As far as big artist like 50 Nelly and other not going to Koch….well lets just wait until there contract is up at the Majors…you’ll get your answer then.(Dont be surprised when there is a flood of new indie labels in 5-10yrs.)

    Artist are going to chase the money and consumers are going to chase the good music…
    If the indie labels give you more artistic freedom thats where all the good music will be comming from………and the money will follow.



    J. Cochran,
    Last time I checked 50 didn’t produce or write shit for The Doctors Advocate……if ur talkin about The Documentary, yea ur right but I don’t think the documantary is sellin much in 07.
    50 is full of bs, how can ya real niggaz support 50, did ya not hear him yesterday on the radio? Real niggaz don’t get happy over a man gettin convicted for murder.

  • rock da block

    jim jones did not by pass the maors to go to koch.he was turned down by lyor and kevin at def jam and by damon dash at rocafella.stop sucking his dick.

    and i notice how u managed to take another shot at lupe fiasco who was actually poorly promoted.

  • the truth

    All business and relating interests rest upon the “art of the deal”… If you are bound contractually to a major label under a terrible agreement your experience will be less than profitable (see: The Lox, ATCQ, TLC, etc…) That can be said for independent labels and/or distributors as well… Ultimately ones success or lack thereof lies within the business arrangement agreed upon… If one is looking to become famous or a world renown “star” then an independent label/distributor is the wrong route… If one is looking to actually receive residuals from his/her recorded music then the independent route fits perfectly… The only way an inde artist will see $7 a unit is under a true press & distribute deal… Fat Joe as an artist stands to earn very close to that amount because he is responsible for every aspect of his work outside of the duplication and distribution of his product… The Dipset also falls under this category… Many inde artists however do not… when inde artist come into agreements without the funds to market &/or promote their work, their share of profits is similar to that of a major label artist… There in lies the misconception of dealing with an inde… The Ying Yang Twins are fine examples of the latter…

  • john cochran

    Yeah, I was talking anout Game’s first joint. And you dont have to write or produce to own somebodys publishing, ask the LOX.

  • john cochran

    I think the bigger picture should be how 50 always manages to get a buzz going without having one song out. I guess cause tony, loyd, and Mobb deep flopped he gotta say some bullshit for attention. I’ts prolly leading up to another garbage ass album. Can some one tell me how you make one of the dopest ( get rich or die tryin) and answer it with one of the worst albums ever ( the assacre).


    Fuck 50, fuck interscope and all the white people who run it… topic.
    Come on Bears. Its gonna be tough but Bears will pull the upset.

  • Conte

    You fucking little kids are so corny. I see people saying 50 this and 50 that, why did 50 let P do a Koch deal for his solo joint, cause 50 is a real dude, P wanted it, 50 let him do it. Fucking fags are so stupid. So you bash him cause he let P do his thing and make his money, but if 50 said no to P, you would bash him for not letting P get his money. And I saw some fucking idiot say real niggas dont get happy when someone gets convicted of murder. Well asshole, you do when that man had you shoot. Fucking idiot. So let me come over to your crib and shoot your ass, and tell me when I get convicted you aint happy. What are you an idiot. See this is what is so gay about the little fucking fag ass kids on the interent, all they do is hate on 50 and other rappers, its so gay. Whether or not you like 50, I dont think he cares, he is makeing so much money, he makes hot music, he turned his crew into the top crew in rap. He is smart. As for 50 going to Koch, he has a deal already, and when its done, he will probably do the G Unit Records thing, instead of being on Shady Aftermath like he is now, he will put shit out under G Unit. But for Koch, they do get close to 7 dollars an album, but just like the majors, when they give you money, you have to pay it back, so like Tru Life said, they gave Jim Jones over 2 mill for this album, he did 300k, at 6 or so dollars an album, he still owes them money. The key is if your on Koch, selling 500k you will make money. But the funny thing is Cam man, he is so gay, does he really not no that G Unit has sold more albums then Dipset. Shit 50 did over 20 mill, Banks 4 mill, Buck 2, GRODT soundtrack 3 mill, G Unit album 4 mill, Yayo 800k, Mobb 500k, Banks second album 300k US. Dipset hasnt sold shit, Cam has 1 platinum album, and mabye Juelz might have gone platinum, other than that, they havent sold shit, shit Banks and Bucks total album sales are more than all Dipset albums combined. So what the fuck is Cam talking about? Dipset is ass, Tru is murking them right now, they dont want it with G Unit. And Jimmy called in real quick to dead that shit, they dont want it. They say its compitition, what compitition? They cant compete with G Unit. Banks, Buck, Mobb, MOP, Yayo, they will murk Cam, Juelz, Jimmy JR and Hell Rell. Dude, Jimmy is wack, Cam aint shit since SDE. JR and Hell are nothing, Juelz is a fag. What competition? G Unit will murk the fuck out of them.

  • RELIC720

    obviously noone has read “All You’d Better Know About the Music Business” by Kashif. It clearly states (I’ll make it very simple for you) That basically the only thing a major can do for you is make you MORE VISIBLE. That word basically equals FAMOUS. So you not only have to recoup, (and usually end up “Busta Rhymes-ing” yourself, and have to do most of your albums for free after spending MORE, or being ADVANCED MORE than you actually MADE.) but you have to SELL YOUR SOUL/MASTERS, AND (9 times out of 10) lose creative/artistic control and/or be censored if you can ACTUALLY RAP WORTH A DAMN ABOUT REAL ISSUES. WOW. And still not make more than $3.00 a record? TO BE FAMOUS? So OF COURSE it makes more sense to keep your soul, your masters, and your money and SIGN WITH AN INDIE. WHY DO YOU THINK THEY CALL IT INDEPENDENT?

  • TS

    is $0.99 really the avg. amount?

  • 100 Dollars

    RELIC720 Says:

    February 2nd, 2007 at 6:47 pm
    obviously noone has read “All You’d Better Know About the Music Business” by Kashif. It clearly states (I’ll make it very simple for you) That basically the only thing a major can do for you is make you MORE VISIBLE. That word basically equals FAMOUS. So you not only have to recoup, (and usually end up “Busta Rhymes-ing” yourself, and have to do most of your albums for free after spending MORE, or being ADVANCED MORE than you actually MADE.) but you have to SELL YOUR SOUL/MASTERS, AND (9 times out of 10) lose creative/artistic control and/or be censored if you can ACTUALLY RAP WORTH A DAMN ABOUT REAL ISSUES. WOW. And still not make more than $3.00 a record? TO BE FAMOUS? So OF COURSE it makes more sense to keep your soul, your masters, and your money and SIGN WITH AN INDIE. WHY DO YOU THINK THEY CALL IT INDEPENDENT?


    Thats some real shit.

  • thugstyle

    THE TRUTH spoke the truth I feel you on that!
    Firstly 50 cent gets a lot more than $0.99 from his CDs because of his G Unit imprint, signing himself to himself and also he gets money from a bunch of other mediocre rappers on the imprint, therefore he has no problem with the money he getting.
    However if he Cam is in the exact same situation as Fiddy but on an Indie and trust me if he and his camp had as many sales he’ll double fiddys worth, however he would have to invest alot more into it, a risk not too many people will make.

  • Junior

    they pay $7 a record after promotional costs which the artist has input in the promotion process

  • Prince Of The South

    LONZO Says:

    February 2nd, 2007 at 3:53 pm
    Please would someone explain how the fuk 50 makes more off Game’s cd than he does??? That’s fukin ridiculous………

    Yo homie I got you. It’s almost the same situation with Puffy and the 90′s roster of Bad Boy. It was just a logo change, but Puff still got his money away from the publishing. The way a contract is set up in the industry you’re either signed to NY or Cali laws which means you have a certain amount of albums to make or years you’re signed. Game signed a five album deal to Aftermath/G-unit with 50 getting 50% of the profits for being involved. The whole year Game was dissing he was still signed to Aftermath/G-unit. Okay now he got his debut out, but then he got dropped, at Hot 97 50 kicked him out G-unit the group, not the label. In order to keep from putting out his new cd on G-unit he got out of his deal. Dre/50 had to be compensated for potential profit loss, which means either an up front fee or a percentage off the albums left on Game’s original contract. Game agreed to this and signed a 5 album deal to Geffen, with no distribution for Blackwallstreet. That means he has five albums with Geffen starting after his remaining three to fufill his last contract, because 50 and Dre get a percentage off the albums owed.

  • Prince Of The South

    Going Indie can go either way. For real if you want to go through all that hard work to break a few records then go ahead, but you reach more people through a major, potentially. Do You think Jay-Z would be in the position he’s in now if he went Indie? No. Because no one would have heard his music. That means none of the ventures he has now, because no one would take a chance on someone with a small fan base. That’s like Hell Rell getting a deal with Nike. A major allows you to establish yourself and make money outside of music, but only if you’re talented. If you’re not good enough to generate public curiousity for your album the you might as well go indie or sell out your trunk.

  • agee

    I love that breakdown on Game`s contract?

  • NickeNitro

    Ummm…Roc-A-Fella Records was…ummm…an independent label…ummm…that Jay-Z started

    I learned a lot from reading all these comments. Basically, no one should ever negotiate a deal with a major unless they have some bargaining power.

  • nana

    almost everybody made good points!!!!!!!!!!!, now dipset and g-unit are too different groups, i like dipset and their music, but who da fuk is cam’ron to start up this shit!!! 50cent was just makin a point, i dont see why there should be hatin in this. how many record executives will allow their artists to sign on an independent label to release albums, dat is what he did with prodigy and havoc. he has his mind made up dat, koch is a graveyard, but he has respect for da decisons his crew members take. secondly dipset should not try to beef with g-unit, this is becos they will sink, luuk at how 50cent has fuked styles p career, i just found out dat he has an album in circulation and it is not even in stores in London. sooooo if dipset want to go hungry they should try him. i understand da man, he doesnt mean evil, he just gave jadakiss, fat joe and nas one bar on his piggy bank and luuk at what happened, this make them stupid, takin advantage of da situation, to make diss records on da mixtape scene, just to make money. well da guy is way bigger than them now.

    i fink, styles p is a good and humble person, when i listened to dat show, i saw a different side to him and i dont see him to be fake. ope everythang ends up really well for him.

  • blaQ


  • Midwest Soulja

    Im A tell yall something Koch maybe be on some bullshit, but the major labels are fuckin people big time. Not everybody sign to Interscope or universal is going to sell.Yall see 50 & Nelly and thinks its all good. them dudes had to sell 10 mil to get rich. On koch you make a livable wage off what you sell, Most artist sign to a Major have to go on tour to make money & pay back the label. Remember them Advances’ they give them aint shit but a loan.

  • bk

    as usual bol got his info wrong. jim jones didn’t just bypass majors and go to koch. when he signed to koch he said he went there because he thought label execs, especially dame, would offer him a contract after he stepped his game up on diplomatic immunity. thats when he was mad at dame. since he didn’t get any contracts he went to koch. same with louch. he said dblock and interscope never even brought up the idea of him doing a solo, so when ppl started saying he was killin songs he decided to sign to koch so he could drop an album. non of them niggas signed there to get this phony $7 an album. artist like rah digga and others been blowin koch up because they go get meeting so they can get this $7 an album then find out it isn’t true.

  • jacquez
  • campweezy

    styles p saved face man.. got respect for him after the way he handled himself talkin to 50… 50 too!! offering to broker styles deal.. cam on the other hand just made me sigh , another loss for the dips, only person bringin it home right now for the dips is jim jones– as cam doesnt act like a leader at all


    Damn BOL, are you s*ckin the AFGHAN DOG’s weener again????
    Havent u had enuv or is hittin you so hard(omar all the way)that u cannot think ’bout anything except JimmyJ?

  • chuck

    Jim Jones claims that he fully recoups after he sells 50,000 albums. If you believe him, then if he sold 300K total, then 250K times $7/album = $1.75 million. Seems like a pretty good deal to me. What I don’t get is why people who are supposedly making this much money are on the radio spazzin’ out. Mine is the time honored “hater” theory. I base this on the fact that major label promotion only gets you so far. Plenty of artists get radio play all goddamn day and don’t sell shit. Once all is said and done, you still have to connect to your audience in order to sell records and G-Unit has done that, whether you like them or not. Having a certain amount of talent can help in this area, though it isn’t necessarily required. As Conte points out, most of G-Unit did some serious numbers on their first go-round. DipSet, on the other hand…not so much. As for Cam, he has had a lukewarm career at best, peaking while he was under the umbrella of the dude he’s currently beefing with. Since then, his career has been on a downslope. Jim only did 300K even though “Ballin” could be heard everywhere and even after he took on Cam’s beef with Jay, even getting Jay to respond, which is, of course, more promotion for the album. He even put Jay’s response on a special “beef” mix of the song! If you can’t sell after all that, maybe you should take a long look in the mirror. I understand that no artist wants to admit that POSSIBLY they simply SUCK, but at this point, what other explanation is there? Instead, Dipset prefers to align themselves with other artists who think they are more talented than they actually are(I think you know who I’m talking about). I say that because it doesn’t matter what you think of Jay, or of Kingdom Come. The point is that people who haven’t paid the same dues and done as much as he has shouldn’t be talking shit about him. Period. Say what you want about Jay, but he built a solid career THAT IS NOT BASED ON BEEF. How many of his “opponents” can say that? I would guess that expecting a rapper to re-evaluate his approach would be asking too much, but that seems to be what 50 is doing. Judging from his attitude on the Angie Martinez show, he seems less willing to constantly beef every chance he gets. At least he can say that he pissed so many people off on his way to the top that the backlash against him and his crew was inevitable which presumably resulted in low Mobb Deep, Yayo, and Lloyd Banks sales. But as far as I can tell, the people really loved G-Unit the first time out. They connected with their audience, at least for a little while. I don’t really recall anybody ever being excited about a DipSet release. I know plenty of people who download DipSet MIXTAPES, but that ain’t really the same thing. The only real exception in the group is Juelz, who went 2X platinum, I believe, by staying on Def Jam and appealing to the girls with his “Whistle Song.” But that wouldn’t work for the rest of the crew, especially not Jim, he ain’t photogenic(LMAO @ somebody who talks money cars jewelry and clothes all the time and still looks dingy). So that’s that for audience appeal. As far as talent goes, after listening to the Re-Up, it is my OPINION that just about anyone in Shady/G-Unit can rap circles around DipSet. I know some will disagree, but I gotta call it like I see it. The main point of this long ass post is that I just don’t know why these people that are marginally talented are mad that they are just MILLIONAIRES instead of MULTIMILLIONAIRES like 50 Cent. It doesn’t make sense. Especially to the rest of us who are broke as fuck listening to this shit.

  • blaQ

    Camron is washed up and salty coz he flooooooppin! Jimmy shud drop him frm Koch.

  • NickeNitro

    I think the majors are pretty scared of Koch right now. It’s a gigantic independent label. They even do distribution.

    Any rapper that’s smart should sign to Koch if they really want to buck the 4080. A national indepedent? That’s the major label rackets’ biggest fear — someone coming in and giving fair business deals.

  • dna12th

    bol is a fag !!!!!!!!!!!!!! dipset bitch

  • Southern Bred

    cant read all the comments but i agree with the guy who mentioned 50 LET P do the Koch thing and why wouldnt he? 50 has expressed many times the pluses and minuses of being on Koch and there are both. P knows some faggots like him but refuse to like him if hes on GUnit but if hes on Koch (even tho he still has a damn G Unit tat) their be like the “real” P is back. Thats why hes going to Koch. To please the faggots.

    No matter how well Return of the Mac does on Koch I promise he will return to G Unit to release HNIC 2. Artist arent idiots. In the end major label > indie just ask BG who sold untis on Koch but still went back to a major cause he knew he wasnt reachin as many ppl as he felt he could potentially reach.

  • Southern Bred

    u can like 50 or hate 50 but when he speaks (especially about business) he speaks the truth.

    and styles tellin him he shouldnt laugh at ppl gettin locked 50 said why the fuk cant he laugh? thats life and shit happens. and when 50 told styles anyone who says money doesnt change him just never made enough..tell me thats not the damn truth! jay aint the same and anyone who thinks his is…dig a hole!








    About 50cent making more money than the Game : The Game signed a 5 album deal with Aftermath/Interscope almost a year before he was on G Unit. A year later he was about to drop but Dre and 50 thought it would help promote and break the Game if he was a part of the Hottest group at the time – G UNIT.
    So 50cent negotiates to get a percentage from Aftermaths cut of the Aftermath/Interscope contract , this means Game still gets the same amount of money from his contract wheather 50 is getting some or not, coz 50 is taking from Dre.

    Game is no longer apart of G Unit, So the deal has changed however 50cent is still getting compensated because he is partially responsible for initially breaking the artist.
    All this info I got from Billboard magazines November 2006 issue a deall negotiator for interscope was bieng interviewed.

  • Toine Terrell

    50 can suck my hairy balls. I guaran-damn-tee that his next album will flop and only sell around 2-2.5 mill.

  • agee

    The whole talk about major and indie is crazy. Personally I would go to a major. You can get so much exposure and if it don’t work out… can also get into some else….movies clothing lines. I figure if any signs a major deal you should try invest your money. Don’t try live a lifestyle that will leave you broke. I currently work a full time job and I take advantage of every opportunity to make money. I sold ps3s and wiis during the xmas holiday. For each one, I sold it between $100-150 extra. I sold about 9 ps3 ,and 5 wiis. Holiday season is over so I still can make 15 dollars for every wii I deliver to a store out in queens. It aint much but you times it with how many I get. But peep it I was only able to do that because I got rid of a chain I bought. It was bought for $3100. I sold it for $1600, but the person who bought the chain gave me $2000…its was right on 5th ave. I ran my ass out that office fast. So now I’m sitting on $3900. All because I rid a chain. I only bought because of those Cuban Linx days. And I always wanted one. After a couple of months and a couple of stare downs from thirsty ass niggas….(don’t get me wrong I only tucked it in while I rode the E train) I said lets get money. Like Styles fuck a chain I’m already hanging. And by the way I got the ps3 and wii. I aint braging cause that aint nothing. My point is reguardless of what you do rapping working a 9-5 flip ya money. Don’t let money control you. You can control what you get.

  • damd

    50 cent is one of the smartest rappers in the game, ever. He is very business oriented and handles it well. Camron is an idiot. Like Jay-z said, “the only time you went platinum, my chain was on your neck and that’s an actual fact.” Jim jones is one of the only artists at Koch who sold reasonably well under today’s standards without ever having any help from a major label. He is simply an exception. Most Koch artists are either washed up after failing to impress their respective major labels or simply failures that noone knows about. So yeah they might get $7 an album but without the mass marketing of major labels they will hardly ever be a household name. This disadvantages their ability to participate in their own business endeavours due to their low fan base levels. I’m sure no rapper wants to rap forever and/or will sell forever. You are only hot for so long. You gotta set up something while still hot for your own future otherwise you’ll and up like vanlli ice and that hammer dude. The whole Koch thing is just a fad just like that faggot jim jones. Cam and Jones have to make up for their lack of promotion on Koch by dissin the top artists of major labels (jay-z, nas) to create hype for their albums. Does’t that tell you something.

  • Dallas

    “It was bought for $3100. I sold it for $1600, but the person who bought the chain gave me $2000…its was right on 5th ave. I ran my ass out that office fast. So now I’m sitting on $3900.”


    ^^ what the fuck is that nigga talking about?!? He is talking some of that magical Foxy Brown mathematics from that Firm joint.

    Yo my dude, your shit is not adding up. I think your lying.

    • Da Moneyman

      If you used common sense, you would know an item like a chain has something called residual value, commonly referred to as resale value, it’s how a car loses half its value once you drive it off the lot. Then he flips it, last I checked, that sounds like hustling.Unless you’re once of these hating ass you can’t do something because my dumbass can’t comprehend what you’re telling me. Up yo diction, NIGGA!

  • Rae Tha Great

    Shid I might go to KOCH myself for $7 a record sold you do the math and Jim made gwap. Peace

  • Rae Tha Great

    KOCH nigga

  • Rae Tha Great

    Shid I might got KOCH you do the math for $7 a record times 300.000. Jim made a gwap. Peace


    unless you are a commercial rapper or have a solid core fanbase it makes no sense to be on a major. for one, they gonna hold your music until you make some bubblegum stuff they life. secondly, you get less residual income. why get a 200k advance from a major and get $1 per records when you can get no advance on a independant and get $7 per record. that is how master p was making like 50 million per year from 1998 to 2000. do you think anyone on a major can get that type of cake? even if they be a camera/media hoe and tour 200 days out of the year.

  • dmad

    What’s up with u moderators. Posted a message earlier and u ain’t even display it. That’s offensive. xxl sucks.

  • jlupe89

    he is a jim jones dickrider. capo cant rhyme. Lupe is 10X better. who gives a shit about the money. jim jones used his money to get his record sales that way. dipset prob. bought about half lmao

  • shon

    Fif is one smart brotha, period!

    Check it, he is allowing/sending prodigy
    to go over to koch to do his thing so that he can return and give the whole 411 on how much an artist is getting paid.

    If thats not the deal, then why allow your artist to venture off? certainly not for the hell of it, and certainly when it would cause a confict of interest with koch’s artists and gunits own artists.

    Battles are won by strategic moves especially suspect moves.

    Its the unit

  • Hurricane Game

    Jim Jones sold because he is Co-Leader of Dipset with Killa Cam.
    Lupe was hyped as Kanyes Prodege and everyones sick of Kanghey with his tight jackets and super tight jeans (NO HOMO).
    Thats why Lupe aint sell.
    As For 50 SNITCH!
    Who the fuck cares anymore. 50 was goin to sign Teh Ghey Unit to Koch at the end of Last year but the good ol Doc convinced him not to (No Idea Why).

  • King Bolo

    I think it’s sad that Jimmy sold just as much as banks! Banks is on a major label, a label that’s associated with 50 cent. Fifty is his MAN, and he’s featured on his first single! So with that being sad you can undertand the type of promotion he’ll get. I mean he was even on Maimi Ink promoting his album while getting that rotten apple tattoo on his back! Jimmy didn’t have all of that. Being on Koch he had to do whatever he could BY HIMSELF to promote his album, I’m sure he didn’t even do half of what Fifty and his team did for Banks, but yet he still managed to do the same numbers? Fifty knows this, that’s why he was trying to doge it on HOT97 when Camron was speaking on it!! That CAN’T be justified! And this whole “$7 dollars per unit thing”, even Jimmy sad it, “I set the price at $7 per unit, so that after it’s all said and done, after the promo fees, marketing fees, it rounds down to about $5 per unit”. That’s still a huge dollar amount per unit! Major’s do everything in their power to make you a star (or at least this is what your told), that’s the only thing about being major, you’ll be famous quicker. TV, radio, magazine covers! So why doesn’t Fifty sign to koch? WHY WOULD HE? He as too much muscle where he’s at! Why yould anyone give that up? He even turned down being President at Interscope!!! PRESIDENT!
    Let’s not forget what his full name is Curtis “Interscope” Jackson. He as far too much clout where he is to be on Koch!

  • King Bolo

    BIRDSFLYSOUTH, people forget about the number example for choosing indies over majors, MASTER P!! Him along with e-40 and you everelse i’m sure said, “I can make more money selling 100,000, than a major artist would selling 1,000,000!! Master P. has got to be one, if not THE BEST EXAMPLE! He truly is one of the best indies that the business has seen!

  • twerkolator

    wow…i find it funny that most of you d-bags can’t spell correctly or write a sentence, but you’re experts on the music business. go pick up a book and learn something before you comment…

  • phellie

    i hear that shyt

  • ben

    basically em said the same thing in a few bars on the re up numero uno. The disk u shit on.”I thought the point was go to mainstream and hit it big baby baby.” Or sum’n like that. keep it comin bol i like sittin on tha toilet.

  • Hurricane Game

    $7 Per record=more $ than Lloyd Banks can imagine.
    When’s the Dipset beef with Ghey Unit gonna heat up.
    You know they have tension at the moment.
    I can picture it now.
    50 SNITCH getting beat down by Capo and Killa Cam making him kiss the pinky ring(no homo)


    I feel being on Major is a 50/50, cause if they really believe in your work, they will push you, plus now they want acts thats ready to blow now, not later, a indy is all up to you to push your own act your music but if you sell you get more money than being on a major,but if your not on top of your game and push your music, you wont be heard, so its all about how much you know about the Music indy,which will make it easier for you to know which way to go thats best for you. REAL HIPHOP (

  • EReal

    Man I’ve heard some stupid ass shit being said here.

    “Everyone on G-Unit flopped.”
    Uhm since when is a GOLD RECORD flopping? Exspecially since the way sales were this year. BTW, GRODT Soundtrack went platinum.

    This other dude said “50 will flop and only sell like 2-2.5 Mil.”
    2- 2.5 Mil is flopping?????

    Man some of yalls haterism is makin you look as dumb as Camron talkin bout “How much did Mobb Deep sell 50?”
    Uhm, Mobb Deep outsold Killa Season Cam, and you sposed to be the best in your crew.

    Its ridiculos how people put on blinders when they hate on 50 and G-unit. Look at the facts people.

    a MIXTAPE that was turned into a 4th quarter tax write off is sellin just as much if not more than your favorite rapper.
    Let it burn haters, Let it Burn.

    Co-Sign Conte.

    1 hunned.

  • smh

    Conte stop sucking 50′s dick so much.Everytime his name comes up u come on ehre trying to save a nigga, get the fuck outta here with that. Mobb Deep did not sell 500,000 where the fuck u gettnig ya wack ass numbers from.

  • sheka

    ur right bol. today u dont need signe on a major laber. watch to mobb deep or loyd banks. they aint sellin. so why to pay the laber if u can go to koch and make more money. but u must be clever as jim jones who knows how to puch albums!! and fuck 50 and what he sayin an hot 97. cam is cool and clever. 50 is a rat!! fuck all g-unit members!! CAMRON is da KING of NY!!!! truth

  • Playa=50=

    fack mobb deep. fuck loyd banks. fuck g-unit!!!
    jimmmy is cool , cam is cool
    so who is da king of ny? jay-z? nooo
    cam is it!!! and 50 is a stupid mofo… stop actin like that on a hot 97.. haha u idiot! styles make so money with 50 but give him no money. take it all for u buddy.

  • EReal

    @ King Bolo.

    Yeah but that show was really the only promotion done for that album. It wasnt like some huge Gayme, Nas, JayZ promotion.. he did that show and that was pretty much the only thing I saw associated with the album. Correct me if im wrong tho. Bank$’s album was just weak, compared to his mixtape shit it was madd dumbed down. Still good, but not up to what I expect from Bank$.

    1 hunned.

  • Sayso is Donny Slaughter

    Tha sad part is that they compare Lloyd Banks to Jim Jones, number wise, when Banks’ shyt wasn’t even promoted rite, probably cuz it ain’t have shyt on it!!! Bottom line is that the days of tha platinum rappers are gone and gold is tha new platinum, so should we dumb down our jewels….LOL!!!

  • stoneyisland

    1st of all Cam’ron is the stupidest muthafucka alive, he’s suppose to be a leader but when u get down to the hitty gritty, if Jim Jones had any balls he wouldnt be playing second fiddle to a nigga he is constantly out selling. That said why cant al lof these rap niggas just be happy that they are making some bread and feed their families, all this I’m better, I;m richer 3rd grade playground bullshit it so fucking stupid. As a black man I am embarrassed by some of these niggas behavior. Make your money, shut the fuck up and try doing sumptin positive. As long as we all eat, whats the fucking problem????

  • mannyworld33

    Playa=50= Says:

    February 5th, 2007 at 12:18 pm
    fack mobb deep. fuck loyd banks. fuck g-unit!!!
    jimmmy is cool , cam is cool
    so who is da king of ny? jay-z? nooo
    cam is it!!! and 50 is a stupid mofo… stop actin like that on a hot 97.. haha u idiot! styles make so money with 50 but give him no money. take it all for u buddy.
    WTF????? COCAINE IS A POWERFUL DRUG! LMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


  • Hottsauce

    Ok. I heard the soundbite with Cam and 50 and props to Cam for holding his ground! Besides Buck, G-unit is a sinking ship and Jim Jones had way better street anthems than Banks. Furthermore, 50 talked to styles and said that he can “broker” a deal for him. How in the fuck is this dude gonna try to create some shit for Styles when he couldn’t even make Mobb Deep sale, Banks sale, and Mase even make a record.

  • Sayso is Donny Slaughter

    Whut these muphuckaz is gearin’ up fo war for is mere chicken feed compared to the Rollin’ Stones’ pockets, just last year alone, so yall keep fightin’ for tha crumbs off Mastaz table while the real bread stays on tha table…FOOLS!!! In a friendly game of big bank takes little bank, who would win between 50 and all of Dipset???

  • LDN

    Bol why you using that pic of when u were like 20 and not a fat homo like you are now

  • OG Frank

    Dipset Vs. G-Unit is a joke. G-Unit will kick they asses,I gotta be sorry for Juelz,MAYBE the only one who doesn’t act as gay as the rest of the Snitchset. And Cam’s phone call was gay.
    Fuck Dipset!
    Fuck Snitchset!
    Fuck Dickset!

  • Prince Of The South

    Right now 50 just has himself to balme for G-unit not living up to expectations, which I’ll give him are pretty high. He’s expected to break a platinum record everytime he puts an artist on deck, which isn’t easy, not even a major like defjam can do that, thing is anything at gold isn’t a brick it’s just something to build on. That being said he has to take all the blame, because he was the executive producer for all those projects. That means he helped creatively with the records and beat selevtion as well as finance the project. But the same goes for Dipset. Jr Writer and Duke A God didn’t break a 100k and Cam came out on a Major, warner, and barely broke 200k. I’m glad to see Julez and Jimmy do they thing, but the whole thing about beef is stupid. Cam situation isn’t strong enough to take down 50, maybe G-unit. He just need to chill and make better music, because Jimmy outselling him and he’s under cam.

  • CA Fella

    guys guys guys no1 in dis mf knows what there talking about! the main difference between a major n Koch is the promotion money!!!! on KOCH U GET $0 and on majors depending who u are U GET CHEEESEEEEEEEE

  • Nigga Please

    Album sales. Album sales album sales album sales album sales album sales album sales album sales, album sales album sales, album sales album sales album sales….album sales album sales album sales …album sales . Album album sales album sales album sales …album sales

    ya’ll are stupid.


    I dont like G-unit or DipSet BUT I KNOW 50 WOULD do them like he did Ja Rule,just cause his money is longer, not cause hes nice, the old Cam would eat 50 alive, but Cams a bitch and a hater, and when your a boss and your understudy (JIM JONES)sells more than you and the streets feel him more than you, thats mean your whole shit is trash, swagger,everything, done, just get your money. You see JIM called the hot 97 later to sqwash it, they dont want no problems, Jim is smart,Cam is Finished.


    The reason why G-unit aint selling no more is cause there boss made an empire off of GIMMIKS, NOT STRAIGHT being nice with his. He had to put somebody else down to come up, thats like building the foundation of a house on wood, bad Krama,plus EM is not helping him with his albums any more,his first (GET RICH OR DIE TRYING) YOU CAN TELL EM HELP HIM, look at the choures, tight, secound album, trash, people thought they was getting something like he did the first time around, nope, fooled you all,this time i think he wont flop, but he aint doing 9 MILL,more like 4 maybe. Buck,Banks,Yayo,was good cause they was with 50,and he push them very well, but when all your music starts to sound the same, your finish, and your just starting shit with people for no reason cause your GIMICKS are running out,your finish. Now its up to him to bring G-Unit back, if he cant,hes gonna go down real ugly,just how he came up, with that song (How to Robb)bad Krama.

  • Hurricane Game

    “Mobb Deep outsold Killa Season Cam”
    Umm no it didnt.
    Killa Season went close to gold.
    Blood Money sold 200k first week but then sold nothing after that.
    G-Unit is dead as a staff, and a record label.
    There clothes cant sell.
    The shoes are straight garbage(trust me when working at footlocker you see this shit)
    Id rather have me a pair of nike airs or Hurricanes or Chucks to those gay ass shoes.
    So its GGGG NOT!
    Dipset have the better allies.
    The Game, T.I. Etc.
    G-Unit aint got no one.
    Jay-Z and 50 still aint down after 50 SNITCH Made that How to rob song.
    Diddy aint down wit him.
    Bussa Busses friend was killed by Gayo’s Entourage so they aint down.
    So its simple that Dipset would crush G-Unit.
    Buck need to leave NOW! And become solo or end up like Banks bitch ass!

    • Impulse 187

      wow. The fact that you said that on february 6th makes you look SOOOOOO Stupid for saying that. I hope you get bitch slapped.

  • Sayso is Donny Slaughter or…if U need it I gots dat!!!

  • taylor shill from minneapolis

    yo fuck jim jones….fuck dipset now…they fuckin suck…they obviously dont know who they are fucking with when it comes to 50cent…cause u fuck wit 50 u fuck with eminem…u fuck wit eminem u fuck with dre…u also fuck with the whole g-unit and yea dipset is stupid…they fucked with the wrong nigga’s

  • Retro

    testicles 1,2

  • Retro

    Why yall so worried about how much money so and so is making??? Make your own money. Cock Records pays their artists $5 an album after they recoup…yay for them. Major artists know they are getting raped when they sign that contract. It’s like going to a dealership and a used car lot. At the dealership they gonna make you put down a big ass downpayment, high monthly payments and tax you out the ass. You end up paying $30,000 over 6 years for a $19,000 car. At a used car lot you pay $8,000 for a $5,000 car over 2 or 3 years. The end result in owning the car, but the kind of car you want. The new car looks better and will probably last longer, but in half the time you will OWN that used car and get just as much use out of it as the new car.

  • Retro

    fuck this bullshit, start postin my comments

  • The Dude

    lupe fiasco’s cd is great, i don’t care what nobody says..that guy is real rap

  • DC’s Finest

    HA! team rocket?! only a nerd like Bol would make a pokemon reference, and only a nerd would understand that…Its the ROC

  • Shadowking75

    Koch does pay artists $7 per album. Artists that want major deals are greedy and lazy. They don’t want to get hustle on, they want the majors to do all the work!!!

  • Torey Rainey

    1st off, Jim Jones did try to get a major deal but got rejected by everyone including Damon Dash. U are not going 2 get paid as much 2 do a show if u are not on a major. Now ask any artist signed to an independant would they rather be on a major. By the way, Jim Jones album dropped in Nov. of ’06 & he is still @ 380,000. Thats 7 months. lol. Like Jay-Z said, “men lie, women lie, #’s don’t. Oh yeah, & since yall want 2 talk about snitching. It was Cam who said that the person who shot him threw up the Roc sign. & Game said that 50 had his boy shot. lol.

  • Hoodgrown Records

    Koch is winning because they’re spending thrifty. Not paying producer $100,000 a track or 1mil on a video and all that dumb shit!

  • Nurul CEO

    First lets talk all the dollars the first thing that happens financially whit a rapper is he gets a advance. thats spent, the label gives you that money in regards that you will sell enough records for them to at least get them their money back thats where the recoup starts. second for indie labels their not finna spend money that they cant get back. now a days a cd will sell for the most 14.99 which is later in the year after it released because all the main places that sell them are offering them for 9.99 if a record label paid $7 per album their profit will be more than half. but lets not forget they might not put all the money in marketing and promo but the will which will in turn go back to them requesting some of that advance money they gave you and also some of that marketing and producer money as well, because the average artist doesn’t have their own producer and if they do they have to be paid as well. why you think indie artist dont stay on the same indie label and are constantly shopping for deals every few years or every year. which goes back to another argument why is it when artist get on indie labels the biggest thing they say is the deal they got and all the money they make instead of what kind of album im working on. thats why music then went down hill

  • polo DIZ


  • BluBlack

    The funny thing is that everybody thought that you can get 7 dollars off an album, but bad promotion.The Thing that was funny to me was that you can win at an indie or a major if you just dont depend on the label to do everything. If you out their promoting your album too, doing all the other things that the major or indie wont do, or making sure they do it, or just find other ways to pushing your music, you will win anywhere.The work is just starting when ou get signed, but artist that dont understang how the bizz side works, will get chewed up and spit out like charles Hamilton.