We thought we knew what the movement was like. But then there was trouble in Dipset paradise. With co-founder Cam still M.I.A., can Jim, Julez and Zeke bring the title back to Harlem?

Interviews By: Vanessa Satten
Photography By: Perou

A rap crew is hip-hop’s best display of strength in numbers. A group of friends from the hood pool talents and energy and work toward one common goal: to make a mark through music and make everyone rich.

So it was with Harlem’s Diplomats. Sharing the work of writing, recording, video making, marketing, publicity, weed carrying and back-of-the-trunk distribution, co-CEOs Cam’ron and Jim Jones, president Freekey Zekey and vice president Juelz Santana churned out authentic New York street rap on the regular for years. Working through major-label deals, the independent Koch Records and the black-market mixtape circuit, they sold millions of records.

It started in the late ’90s. A former member of Harlem’s legendary teen group Children of the Korn, Cam’ron was the face, and the voice, of the operation—establishing himself as a solo artist while Jim played capo, the man behind the man, handling the business, and Zekey provided hype-man humor. A teenage Juelz joined in 1998, after being introduced to Cam through a cousin.

Over the next eight years, the Dipset grinded hard. Cam dropped two albums on Epic, before signing to Jay-Z’s Roc-A-Fella Records and blowing up with the summer 2002 hits “Oh Boy” and “Hey Ma.” The success paved the way for an offi cial Diplomats label deal with the Def Jam–distributed Roc, two group albums and two from Juelz (the latter, 2005’s million-selling What the Game’s Been Missing!, cemented the youngster’s star status), and a mass movement of Dipset affi liate artists (Hell Rell, J.R. Writer, Purple City, etc.).

Transitioning into an artist’s role himself, Jim debuted his raps on mixtapes, before signing with Koch Records in 2004, dropping two albums and creating his own crew, Byrd Gang. He also got a gig as director of A&R for Warner Music Group. Zeke, meanwhile, was convicted of drug charges and locked up in North Carolina in 2003. By the time he got out, three years later, an internal rift had developed in Dipset.

It’s unclear exactly when problems between Jim and Cam began. Unconfirmed industry rumors had bubbled for some time, but it wasn’t until February 2007, after Cam’ron got into an on-air phone skirmish with 50 Cent, on Hot 97, that the public learned. As a mixtape-track-and-videos beef touched off between Cam and G-Unit’s 50, Jim and Juelz remained notably absent. Jim would soon tell missinfo.tv that the crew was “putting Cam’ron on punishment,” and he joined 50 onstage during a concert at New York’s Hammerstein Ballroom.

Following the 50 debacle, Cam went underground—where he’s been pretty much ever since, save a fan’s occasional camera-phone picture. Strangely, Juelz has also spent much of the past three years, once again, missing. Material from the ballyhooed collaboration with Lil Wayne, I Can’t Feel My Face, has dribbled out as sporadic mixtape fare, rather than the major-label full-length that was promised so long ago. The disappearance, it seems, had something to do with Juelz’s recording rights, which Cam’ron held under Diplomats Records, until selling the contract to Def Jam this past August for a reported $2 million. (Cam’ron declined to comment on this article.) Free to work again, Juelz has been focusing on the promotion of his own group of Dipset affi liates, Skull Gang.

Jim, on the other hand, has only grown in stature. Building off his 2006 smash “We Fly High” and his juice as an executive, he’s assumed undisputed leadership of the crew. Currently enjoying a radio hit, in “Pop Champagne” (which also features Juelz), he’s putting finishing touches on his first major-label release, Pray IV Reign, due this month via Columbia Records. Zeke, too, is prepping a new album, his second for Koch, while also pushing a subsquad, 730 Dips.

XXL recently caught up with Jim, Juelz and Zeke to talk about the question lots of people have been wondering for a long time: What’s up with the Diplomats?

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Juelz Santana
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Juelz Santana

Cozy and carpeted, Santana’s World studio, in Bergenfield, New Jersey, is a comfortable spot to chill on a rainy night in December. Couching out with his Skull Gang cronies after a day of promoting their new album release, A Tribute to Bad Santa (distributed through Koch and starring comedian Mike Epps), 26-year-old LaRon James, better known as Juelz Santana, leans back and fields questions.

So you really haven’t had the chance to blow up yet, right?
Yeah, gimme a high five! [Laughs, high fives]

The lane hasn’t opened for you yet.
Me and [Def Jam/Universal boss] L.A. Reid—yesterday, two days ago—was just talking. I don’t wanna quote him. I’ll quote myself: A lot of the artists that’s up there, they kinda reached their peaking level. Juelz, as hot as I been, as long as I been here, I’m still young, I’m still fresh.

How did Cam’ron owning your contract affect you?
It was a bad deal. He owned so much of my shit and everything, he just, practically, owned more than what I owned, and it got to a point where I just wanted to get the situation right. I didn’t want nothing back. And it’s like he wasn’t trying to get it right. He wasn’t trying to give me what I felt like I was owed. It’s like he directed us. We put the building together, brick by brick. All he was doing was directing us, and when we got to the top of the building, he don’t even wanna share the sandwiches. It’s lunchtime now. He wanna give us pieces of a sandwich, and he got one big hero, and we getting pieces. Like, “Come on now. The building is built. You gotta respect us on another type of level.”

And as far as clearances… I was running in that same lane Wayne was running in. But I couldn’t… Nike, I did that commercial—that got pulled. I’m still damn near in some shit with them. Just wild shit he didn’t clear. I was on over half of those remixes that Wayne was asked to be on. Not that they asked Wayne before me, or they asked me before Wayne, but, you know, me and Wayne had the whole I Can’t Feel My Face.

What happened to the Diplomats? Is it just the three of you? Does it exist?
Yeah. It’s, like, Cam is still Diplomats. We was all put in a situation where Cam told us we had roles that we never really had. We had invisible roles. And it got to a point where we was like, Damn… To be honest, Jim was never the capo, like, on paperwork. I was never the [vice] president. Cam owned everything.

The titles were just for show.
Exactly. And that’s all it was. He shitted on us. And then when it was time for us to just get it right, it was like… I mean, that’s all I wanted. I couldn’t ask for what Jim was asking for, individually, because they was brothers before I even got there. I can’t even really speak on they—they situation may be something else. But I know, as far as me, I was so loyal to Cam. Cam’ll tell you. I done brought weed to Cam. Not on no son shit—just because he was the head. I respected him as the boss. I never wanted to jump in… If I had sold 10 million records, Cam still would have been my boss, and I would have still respected him like that. And when I did my Skull Gang shit, then I would have been the boss of that. So I guess he kinda fell back, and it was like, if niggas wasn’t doing what he was doing, then they bet’ not be doing nothing.

The whole 50 shit, I had spoke to 50 three days before he got on the radio with Cam, through niggas I had knew from Queens. And we had just chopped it up on some shit, like, “Yo, let’s try to put something together.” And I had not yet got the chance to speak to Cam and let him know, “Yo, I spoke to the nigga 50, and maybe we can put some shit together.”

And they didn’t have any beef three days before that happened?
Nah. And then the radio shit happened. My nigga John Dent, he’s like, “Yo, we listening to the radio, and Cam and 50 going at it.” We was just trying to put the shit together so maybe we could have had that Diplomat/G-Unit tour. Like, Wow, that would have been big for the city. So it wasn’t like niggas wasn’t with Cam. It’s just like, Damn, when you really listen to the conversation. It’s like, you know how 50 gradually attack niggas. He ain’t really come at Cam like that… I think Cam got caught up trying to defend Koch.

But there was a lot of shit going on. It was a little bit of turmoil between him and Jim, before that whole 50 shit, that was just unseen… It was a little bit of things that Jim and Cam had that was being covered up for other reasons.

Do people try to bring all you guys together?
People have said they gon’ try to, but it always comes back to they can’t get up with ol’ boy. So I don’t be knowing. Maybe he waiting for… I don’t know. I mean, it seem to me like now you just waiting for an album to come out or something so you can do some big press release, like, “Cam finally speaks!”–type thing, so everybody gonna want that interview.

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Juelz Santana
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Seems like that could be what he’s doing.
But that’s corny, though. So, see, I’m the type of dude, I would never say stuff. I always been like that, observant. I be knowing what’s going on. What we built is bigger than that. It’s like you let everybody say something, and you gonna wait for that big moment? ’Cause, at this point, that’s looking like the only source of promotion you gon’ get? Like, aight, he finally breaks his silence. What does he have to say—about everything?

When did you first know something was wrong within Dipset?
As far as with me, I knew the business was wrong for a little minute. I tried to—not ignore it—but I tried to send people indirect messages that I knew was close to him to get back to him and let him know, you know, “Juelz, he kinda feeling some type of way about what’s going on.”

Why couldn’t you just call him and say, “Hey, this is Juelz. I’m feeling some type of way…”?
At the time… To be honest, Cam is a hard person to speak to like that. ’Cause, to me, I felt like he would turn it into something that it really didn’t need to be. And it would just really be like, “Ahh, fuck this nigga”–type shit. I ain’t want it to be like that. That’s how it was. It was like an older-brother, lil’-brother type of thing. Dig what I’m sayin’? It’d be like, “How you feel some type of way?” Now, I’m a man, at the end of the day, so now I gotta defend myself on that note. It turns into something else. I didn’t want it to get into that. Nigga knew what it was. Like, “You right. At the end of the day, you the boss. Fuck it. I’m the child. I’m the young one. I’m looking at you like you the boss. If shit turns into turmoil, you gotta be the one to put it together. That’s what a boss does.” At the end of the day, I could’ve made the phone call. Yes, you right, I could have made a phone call. But he should’ve made the phone call. And that’s it. That’s the bottom line. I could have, but he should have.

But, today, the Diplomats still exist? And it’s the three of you?
We still holdin’—

But Cam still owns the Diplomats name.
That’s just when it comes to paperwork. We still the Diplomats. We still doing what we doing. The bird is still in the sky. Can’t nobody touch us. Can’t nobody fly higher than us. Niggas still watch us and pluck feathers from off us and take our swag. We set the prec for everything that goes on in this muthafucka. Niggas know what it is. Niggas that done ran through New York, they know, when they come through, they know who they gotta link up with to get that certified stamp in this muthafucka.

As far as Cam not being around, that don’t really got nothing to do with Diplomats. That just got to do with him not being around, really. We built Diplomats. Cam was Cam’ron before there was Diplomats. So Cam not really being here is just Cam not being here. We the Diplomats.

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Freekey Zekey

A hook man/hype man extraordinaire, Ezekiel “Freekey Zekey” Jiles is known as the Dipset’s resident comedian. Tonight, at the studio in Jersey, though, he’s more subdued. Forthcoming and polite, he takes a seat and sets to explaining the difficult situation he finds himself in, caught in the middle of internal crew drama.

So, to you, what’s the status of the Diplomats?
Well, first, anything with Jim is never gonna go smooth. You pass Jim a blunt, he says: “Why you pass the blunt that way? Why you pass the blunt with the fire towards me? You trying to hurt me?” The Diplomats, it was always Cam’ron and the Diplomats.

The four of you and some extras, like Hell Rell, right?
The founders of Diplomats Records is Cam’ron, Jim Jones and Freekey Zekey. Then, after we came out with [Cam’s first solo album, 1998’s] Confessions of Fire, then we picked up Juelz. That was, like, the foundation. The core four. Everything was popping off ’til I got locked up. So I see everything—“Whistle,” “Suck It or Not,” “Ballin’”—and I’m superhappy, ’cause I’m already counting my money, seeing how many bitches I can bone, how many cars, houses…

Meaning, while you’re locked up, they’re putting money aside for you?

Right. Shows and anything. Any side deals they get. [Then, in late 2006, when I was] on my way home, I called Jim, and he was like, “Yo, shit is fucked up, man.” So I’m like, “What happened?” “You’ll see when you come home.” And that’s when everything blew up. But right now it’s myself, Jim and Juelz. And I speak to Killa. I love Killa. That’s my family. And Jim did some bullshit, and Killa did some bullshit. But they two bulls, and they gonna ram, and they seem like they not gonna give. But there’s a lot of things that Cam could succumb to that will make things a lot better, too. And this is coming from someone who loves everybody. I could go to Cam house and chill with him and call Jim like, “Yo, I’m at Killa house.”

So how come you can’t get them together?
Cam needs to humble himself and be like, “Fuck it, we here, let’s rock out.” That’s my honest opinion. And Cam know I love him. This is basically my shout-out to him.

So have you tried to do that?
Hell muthafuckin’ yeah! One day I seen Killa, he was floating up Fordham Road. And I ain’t try to run him off the road, but I ran up on him. He was reaching, and I’m like, “It’s me, hold on.” So we got out and talked, and that’s what we talked about. Cam is a strong-minded dude, and there’s a lot of things that he just got to succumb to now.

Does Jim have to succumb to a few things also?
Hell yeah. Cam gotta succumb, and Jim gotta succumb, to a lot of things. They all just got to take they helmets off.

It seems hard for big crews to exist in hip-hop anymore. It’s kinda rare.
And it’s not over. Because, every day, we talk about plans on when Killa comes back. Still. Me, Jim, Juelz.

So why can’t the three of you go over there, tie him up and talk about everything?
We don’t know where he’s at. We ring on his doorbell. Don’t think we just be like, “Damn, I wonder where Killa’s…” Nah, we drive through. But Killa flies everywhere. I’m not saying he’s hidden in New York.

So you’ve got 730 Dips, Juelz has Skull Gang, and Jim’s got Byrd Gang. But you’re all together under Diplomats. Is it weird that it’s still all under a name owned by Cam, when you guys don’t know where he’s at?
It’s crazy, right? But, at the end of the day, that’s the whole point. We keeping this name alive because we know that Killa’s coming back. It’s not like Cam ain’t coming back. If that’s how we felt, we would just have left—like, Diplomats is over. We wouldn’t shout “Dipset.” We wouldn’t shout “Diplomats for life.”

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Jim Jones
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Jim Jones

Joseph Guillermo “Jim” Jones is a very busy man. After a December photo shoot, though, the Dipset capo finds the time to sit for an interview in the office at his plush Midtown Manhattan studio. Surrounded by skulls—the images printed on his clothes, hanging on the walls… there’s even a large oil painting of one propped on an easel—he lights a thick blunt and gets down to it.

So what’s up with the Diplomats? Who are the Diplomats now?
The Diplomats are Juelz Santana, Freekey Zekey, Cam’ron Giles and Jim Jones.

All right. So what’s up with you and Cam’ron?
I haven’t spoken to him, literally. This Christmas will make a year, because I seen him last Christmas Eve in the bank. We talked briefly. We said a couple of words, said that we were gonna do a couple of things.

So what happened?
I don’t know. Somebody told me that you never know who your friends are ’til y’all have money. And I don’t know what he meant by that, when he told me, but a bit of it makes sense, because when you broke, you thick as thieves, and you do everything together. But when you get money, you seem to get jaded.

But if you’re all getting money together, you all get jaded together?
But then the story gets complicated… I mean, we getting money. I don’t know if everybody was getting the money they supposed to get, but we was getting money. We having fun, we young, we work hard. Getting jaded as a group? I don’t know. We were following one person’s lead, with the help of my knowledge. But it was still at his command. So I don’t know if we got jaded before him.

In the beginning, no one expected you to be a star. You were the one behind the scenes, making the videos, doing the studio, driving around with the mixtapes, if need be.
I was one of the pillars to hold the whole thing up. I did what I had to. I did what we agreed I would do. That would be take care of the business and whatever else I had to do to make Cam’ron famous and make us some money. And once Cam got famous enough, then he would be able to make us all artists and make us into something that would be relevant to making some paper. That’s what went on… I don’t know if I always aspired to rap. I don’t know that that was my thing. I just knew that I had it. I just had something in me since I was younger that—since school, since high school.

Have you gotten what you wanted out of the Diplomats?
I don’t know… See, there’s so many pieces to the story. Like, the real history. It just came from so many different directions to where we—just thinking about it now, just talking, like, there’s a lot of people who have their own bits and pieces to why this history is so important to hip-hop itself.

We should have been counted out the game numerous times, but, for some reason, we stayed afl oat. For some reason, people seemed to gravitate toward us even more as we became more rebellious and more flamboyant and more obnoxious and more aggressive. And, you know, N.W.A and everybody started that part of so-called gangsta rap. But I think, since the first part of the decade, the 2000s, I think we been the most aggressive group of individuals to come out of hip-hop.

Zeke and Juelz allude to the fact that something happened between you and Cam. Juelz has issues over his contract problems with Cam, and Zeke’s kinda caught in the middle. But the stuff really stems from you and Cam.
Of course it stems from us two. Because Diplomats was everybody’s when we started, but Diplomats was ours. When people saw Cam, they thought Jim. When people saw Jim, they thought Cam. So we were a bit selfish in feuding over whatever it may be, the bullshit, because we weren’t thinking about this movement that we started… That’s the only thing that hurts me the most, that we weren’t big enough as businessmen—and maybe it’s because it was only us. We had nobody older than us to tell us what was right from wrong with this business that we doing. We still was smart enough as businessmen to maintain the level of business we needed to continue the Diplomats flyin’. It just seems that one thing led to another. Separation started, and everybody started going on their different sides, and pretty soon it was just a wrap. There was no more to it. And it was around the “Ballin’” time. I’ll never forget it. It was right after the “Ballin’” video that everything was just…pretty much over.

And I thought we had a pretty decent time there. I thought we had a pretty constructive conversation. But—and this is a lesson I’ve learned myself—communication is very important when you doing business with people you consider to be your brothers. Communication and cooperation. Loyalty is something different. But to do business, communication and cooperation is the most important thing. And we lost that. And once we lost that, we lost Diplomats. And I’m just talking about Diplomats as the way that people used to see it. Everybody rolling out.

So now it’s, like, me sitting back like, What have we done here? Is it every man for theyself now? Is this where everybody gets selfish and let everything go down the drain? Or do you take it amongst yourself to get up off your shoulders and get this shit popping? And that’s what I chose to do. I chose to use “Ballin’” as a vehicle to put everybody in and keep driving, ’cause we wasn’t fl ying at that point. But I said fuck it, we gon’ ride this muthafucka out and still get to the same place we was trying to fly to. And right now it seems like we pulling back up to another airport.

You say you lost communication. If you knew that was the problem, why couldn’t you have tried to fix it?
When you hurt and you upset, you not thinking about the solutions. You only thinking about what was done to you and different ways you can even get back. Or it’s even worse to get back, because amongst all this is a person you said was your brother. And a lot of childish shit was going on that we were both better than.

Any examples?
You know what I think it was? We were so young and came up so close. It was like being damn near married—in no crazy type of sense. But as we get older, everybody wants to start living a separate life and to—not to stop doing business, stop doing what we doing. But you become older, and the things you used to do, you don’t have a taste for that anymore. And everybody needs to slow down and go in their different directions. And I guess we didn’t know how to do that and still maintain the same brotherhood that we had. And whatever little mistake that one of us may have done—not in no bad way, but just as far as living our life—if it wasn’t beneficial, or if it wasn’t done amongst the relationship we had, it felt like it was a little bit disrespectful toward what we had going on for the last umpteen-odd years of our life.

It’s crazy. You know, for me it’s still… I try to talk about this in a way where you can relate to, but not really put what we been going through out there so much. So there’s a very thin line here, but it’s lessons to learn for people who coming up the same way we had it. I don’t care if you are hustling and making money or are doing business. Whatever it is, if it is something that you’re doing with a partner and making money, you can learn a lot from this story. And I can tell you all the time, but most people don’t want to hear it. They only learn from experience. And most of us learn from failure.

And no one told you, when you guys were coming up?
The biggest example for us was Dame and Jay, ya dig?

Okay, so which one are you?
Hmm. You really want to start some shit up.

No, you said it.
But I could feel like I’m Dame. But Cam could feel like he’s Dame, ya dig? So it depends on who you asking. I mean, from the way the story goes, I feel definitely like Dame.

So Cam was the paper gangster? Like, keeping Juelz tied down because his Def Jam contract was through Diplomats?
But then how can you say that when Cam was my partner, and I knew that was going on? So would that make me a paper gangster, also?

Only if you weren’t doing right by the others, right?
Well, I thought somebody was doing right by me, and they wasn’t. So, in turn, above all, the bond that me and Cam had overceded anything that was going on, because this was our shit that we started. Whoever else that we pulled in to play was because we loved them and felt that, Shit, this is that brotherhood that we needed, and this is the pieces of the puzzle that we did.

When it came to doing business, in the beginning, I never cared about a lawyer. What Cam said was platinum. We had loyalty like no other—at least that’s what I thought. So if he told me, “This is the way that we need to be handling our business,” as far as us being owners of the Diplomats, and how we handle our artists. So when it was done, we were like, “Yeah, let’s do it. Let’s get it.” And in the beginning, it was fair. Because most people are naive at the beginning of their career, so you work for what you get.

In this game, you don’t get what you deserve; you get what you negotiate. And me, on two sides of the fence, I’m not going to tell you what you need to being doing. But if you stick in this game long enough, you’re gonna know, when you come to negotiate, you will be able to negotiate again if you sell some records. And this time you might turn the tables in your favor. And that’s what it was supposed to be. So now, when I look back at it… When I found out that I was getting done wrong, I was like, Wow, I only can imagine what’s really going on. And I was in the wrong by default, and I still feel guilty for that, even to this day. When Juelz was going through what he was going through, I felt very guilty. And I know deep down inside he had to feel a sort of a way. Not in the hatred type of way, but just a way like, Yo, you know, even you were a part of what was going on there. Even though you may be getting jerked. You feeling my pain, and you… So it’s a crazy situation that I went through, just as far as mentally thinking about how he might have felt. Because Juelz is young. And when your life gets put on hold or gets put on freeze like that out of nowhere, and you just was on top of the world—a kid from Harlem having a platinum record and all these hits and…

And then opportunities don’t get cleared.
And then now that somebody has control of everything you trying to do, imagine that. And you can’t get through to him. You can’t communicate with him no more. And then everything goes wrong from there.

So what would you like to see for the Diplomats, then? Can you ever do a Diplomatic Immunity 3, with the four of you?
Definitely. That’s definitely in the works. We just in the process of rebuilding the infrastructure, putting everything where it needs to be. Juelz has the Skull Gang, and Zeke has 730, and me, I have Byrd Gang. Byrd Gang was a subsidiary of Diplomats.

Why form a subsidiary of Diplomats, instead of just adding on to the Diplomats?
Because it was a bit of my own elite situation I had going on.

That was a dumb question. It’s business. Cam’ron owns the Diplomats.
Diplomats was the kingdom. Just like the movie Troy—how Brad Pitt was Achilles, and he had his own group, but they was still a part of the kingdom. But they was obviously the people he depended on when it was time to get it in, and that’s sort of what Byrd Gang represented—or represents still.

Cam owns Diplomats. Legally. If I wanted to make a stink about it… But there’s no need to.

So Diplomats is still going, but Byrd Gang allows you to do other things, in that sense.
Jim Jones allows me to do other things. I’m a creative person. I’m a hustler, na’mean? Those are just names. Shit, that don’t mean too much. We can switch a name.

There’d been rumors about beef between you and Cam for a while. Then there was that phone conversation between Cam and 50 Cent on the radio. The aftereffects shed light on the fact that you two weren’t getting along.
This been quiet for some time. Been tryin’ to keep it to a minimum... I know it’s hard for people, for me to just get up in these magazines… If you goin’ to judge, judge us both. Not just judge one of us because I’m doing the story. It was a two-way street. I mean, shit, yeah, he may have had the upper hand, but we all ain’t angels now, know what I mean?

So, like, “I’m a dirtbag, too…”
I mean, I’m just talking about as far as the confusion between us personally. I ain’t talking about the business. Clearly the business—I had nothing to do with it, know what I mean?—which we all thought…

It’s interesting that you managed to keep it quiet for as long as you did.
I was loyal to a flaw.

Is loyalty a good thing or a bad thing?
Loyalty becomes a bad thing when the person—or anything that you’re being loyal to—doesn’t have the same love, respect and loyalty for you. If they just use your loyalty and have an ulterior motive for you, then what good is it? It’s just crazy that you’d be willing to put your life on the line for something you believe in… And that person or that thing doesn’t appear to do the same thing, or doesn’t have a way to do the same thing, if it came down to it. So it was like, hmm.

It makes people sad. You guys were so close for so long. People think, Jim and Cam, that was one breakup that shouldn’t have happened.
I think I might have jinxed us. Me and Cam was talking a long time ago about somebody that was breaking up. I was saying that would be kind of crazy if we was to break up but fake it—like, act like we was mad at each other and then get back together and make all this money off of it. And Cam was like, “Why would you say something like that? Don’t start talking no stupid shit.” I’ll never forget that. And now I’m like, What the fuck, is this an ill paradox? I be thinking about that shit all the time. Hopefully, we could get this money, ’cause Lord knows there's a lot of private jets.

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