Break it Down: Homophobia in Hip-Hop [Excerpt From the July/August 2011 Issue]

When it comes to homophobia, hip-hop doesn’t have the best track record. “Faggot” and other anti-gay slurs have been used as generic insults on wax throughout the genre’s history. In the mid-1990s, Wendy Williams sent a shiver through the industry by threatening, daily, to out the then-unimaginable “gay rapper” on her radio show on New York’s Hot 97. Strong female rappers have been automatically branded lesbians out of a need to marginalize their voices. Girl-on-girl action began showing up in videos at a certain point, but only as an objectifying peep show. (What exactly about M.O.P.’s “Ante Up” would inspire two women to make out?)

However, recent events suggest a more complicated picture. In fact, while violence, misogyny and materialism may be with hip-hop for a long time, there are signs that the culture’s attitude toward gays may be changing.

It started, one could argue, in the late 1990s, when Puffy and Jay-Z immersed themselves in the world of fashion. It’s hard to run in those circles with any deep-seated prejudice against gays, even if the stereotype of the nattily dressed gay man is itself a harmful one. (It’s worth noting, though, that even as Jay was running Rocawear and rubbing shoulders with the fabulous at fashion shows, in 2001’s “Takeover,” he hit both targets hard, calling out Nas as “the fag model for Karl Kani/Esco ads.”) In 2001, Eminem, so famous for his homophobic lyrical content, took the stage with the famously gay Elton John at the Grammy Awards—the two held hands at the end of their performance of “Stan.” By 2009, when Lil Wayne and Baby were photographed kissing on the mouth, after a collective Internet giggle, fans forgot about it and moved on. Wayne later rhymed about it, taunting anyone so uptight to think this made him gay, but he was also, apparently, not particularly worried about blurring those boundaries.

In June 2010, Em told the New York Times that he supported gay marriage. “I think if two people love each other, then what the hell? I think that everyone should have the chance to be equally miserable, if they want.” When Hot 97’s Mr. Cee was arrested this past April for engaging in oral sex in a parked car with self-proclaimed “drag queen” Lawrence Campbell, a.k.a. Brooke-Lynn Pink Lady, hardcore vets like Prodigy and 50 Cent spoke out in his defense. “I’ll make him my DJ any day,” Fif told Hot 97’s Miss Info. Cee’s reputation, and the role he has played in the careers of icons like Big Daddy Kane and The Notorious B.I.G., seemingly outweighs any concerns about his sexual preferences. Cee pleaded guilty on June 1; five days later he was spinning for 50,000 rap fans at the 18th annual Summer Jam, and made light of the incident by dropping both Shawnna’s “Gettin’ Some” and Diana Ross’s “I’m Coming Out”—the sample for Biggie’s “Mo Money, Mo Problems,” but also a statement in itself. The crowd either didn’t notice, didn’t care or appreciated the honesty and humor.

Tyler, the Creator, the underground’s latest critical darling, has been taken to task for his over-the-top use of “faggot” in his lyrics. But he delivers those lyrics over beats spun by an openly lesbian DJ, Syd Tha Kid. Lil B, another rising Internet-age star (and a favorite of Tyler and his OFWGKTA crew), who was chosen as one of the cover subjects for XXL’s 2011 Freshman Class issue, has announced that his new album will be titled I’m Gay.

I’m Gay is the flash point for hip-hop’s new attitude toward the gay community. Since the April announcement, Lil B has received death threats and had some stereotypical thug rappers go at him—at least once on wax. But he has stuck by the title, even if no one knows exactly what it means. The Oakland, California, MC, noted for his bizarre, lo-fi style and cryptic sensibility, wants it known that he’s straight. He also wants you to know that the title is no mere publicity stunt. Lil B’s motivations, at least the ones he will admit to, get at the paradox of hip-hop’s homophobia. The language is used without thinking, but the underlying prejudice won’t go away just because the words do. “If I want to say that I’m gay, I can say whatever I want to,” Lil B insists. “Really, the word doesn’t mean anything to me but ‘happy.’ ” At the same time, he hopes that “some people that might have been homophobic and respect my music might widen their horizons and ease up, relax and say, ‘People are human.’

“You see how serious life is, and, you know, it’s time to grow up and quit being inside your head so much,” he says. “I think a lot of people are inside their head. [They’ve] just gotta really live life. And once they get away from some stuff they’ve been taught the last 100 years—what their parents taught them or whatever—they’ll be mentally free. That’s what it’s all about. You won’t have any shackles.”

FOR MORE OF “BREAK IT DOWN,” GO TO PAGE 2

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  • nonya

    and look at Beanie Sigel’s career now!…It’s really sad because most of the rappers and people who condemn it, are the ones practicing it behind closed doors. They date and marry women for the public, I’m not saying everyone should put their business out there but COME ON!

  • Sha

    Ok….. This is some serious FLAMETHROWER Sh*t right here!!!

    First of all, Fu*ck GLAAD!

    My problem with homosexuals has never been about the fact that they participate in a different type of sexuality than heterosexuals. That ish never bothered me. Because truth be told, a large percentage of WOMEN allow their men to participate in anal sex in their heterosexual relationships.

    But the REAL problem I have with homosexuals and GLAAD is the way they try to attach their cause or the pain they feel from discrimination to THE BLACK MAN. Let me explain….

    They’ll try to equate the brutality and persecution they experience to being a black person. And to me, that some dumb sh*t.

    First, like it or not, you can hide your sexuality. You can CHOOSE to walk down the street as a person and nobody could EVER know your sexuality.

    But a Black Man can’t hide his skin color. A Black Man can’t suddenly change his genetics. And THAT is the real sh*t that pisses me off. Don’t attach your struggle to someone else’s just because you want to come up. Call it what it is. Gay rights for Gay people.

    And my 2nd problem with Gays is this….
    What makes you gay? Is it the sexual aspect? Because I always thought that was the primary reason someone would classify themselves as gay. The attraction to the same sex. That’s gay, right?

    So WTF do you call it when dudes be flaming and cross dressing and sh*t? According to the pure definition of the word “gay”, that isn’t gay. Matter of fact, that has nothing to do with webster’s definition.

    So am I wrong to call you, the cross dresser, or flamingly loud idiot a f*ggot? Because if you talk to any heterosexual man, it’s not the dude that’s quietly making gay choices that annoys the ish out of him, it’s the flaming dude that pisses the heterosexual (and obviously the military) off.

    Personally, I don’t care what anyone does behind closed doors. But some of yall be asking for it. And in my opinion, justifiably so….

    • TheGhostface

      Your an idiot… are you justifying racism if blacks act an ass in public ? is it then correct for people to throw n***er at them?

      Secondly the thing that makes the black community and the gay community similar is this, people hate them for something they CANNOT control, your hating on GLAAD for using the black mans pain? there is no excuse for hatred and your only supporting it however indirectly.

      Third historically the Jews have had it pretty bad, if they banded together and decided to stop racism towards them would you support their struggle?

      Oh wait that’s the Illuminati

      • Sha

        @TheGhostface….

        You see…. That’s the pure example of what I’m talking about right there. Your comments. Don’t try to put black people in your desire for homosexual equality. Deal with it. Fight the gay person’s war (or society’s fear of the gay man, however you want to phrase it). But leave the Black Man out of it. IT’S COMPLETELY DIFFERENT.

        While I firmly believe every person’s sexuality is determined at birth, I don’t buy into the notion that you have to advertise your sexuality on your sleeve. Nope. It is absolutely not the same as being black.

        And the comment about “fagg*t”. Ok…. So gays don’t like that word. Fine. So what would you call it when a dude is all flaming and all loud, strutting around like an idiot. It’s obviously NOT BEING GAY. Yet that behavior is extremely prevalent in the gay community. It’s obviously NOT BEING HOMOSEXUAL. So what would you call it? Ok….. for the sake of this conversation I’ll just call them “Fu*kin jerks”. Is that better for you? That term is equally offensive but if it will allow you to sleep better at night, I’ll use that. Cause like it or not, that behavior has absolutely nothing to do with being gay (per the dictionary).

        And about your “ni**er” comment. I don’t know what society calls them. But yeah, I’ll call them the same thing A Tribe Called Quest calls them, “Sucka Ni**as”. Because they’re clowns and bringing bad press to themselves as well as the black race in general.

        • GoGoMicFiend

          There is a similarity between the plight of black people and gay people. To say that there aren’t any similarities between the two struggles is a ridiculous assertion to make. I’ll explain why:

          Interracial marriage was illegal up until 1967. Marriage entitles both parties to rights they wouldn’t otherwise have such as access to your partner’s social security if he dies.

          The fight for the right to marry someone of a different race was fought against a backdrop of prejudice and out right hate informed by fear of the unknown and of course a misinterpretation of the Bible which was perpetuated in allot of cases not by just white people but black people too.

          Aside from the legal status, if you were seen to be dating a white woman or vise versa you were shunned and persecuted. Look at what happened Mildred Jeter and Richard Loving and how they were persecuted and the lengths they had to go to attain the rights that we take so much for granted. Given, it isn’t as bad for gay people now, homophobia is far more insidious in today’s culture, nevertheless, it’s still very prevalent.

          Just imagine the feeling of not being able to hold you girls hand because he’s white in public for fear of being persecuted and perhaps you’d have some insight into why there are similarities in the two struggles.

          “So what would you call it when a dude is all flaming and all loud, strutting around like an idiot.”

          That’s your perception which is stacked with allot of hate. Just because someone acts differently to widely, and frankly ignorant, held social conventions does not mean they are a flaming idiot. They’re just different. Accept it and move on. In case you didn’t realize that sentiment is Hip Hop personified; rebelling against social convention.

          I’m not gay but I identify with their struggle because I am a black man. Yes there are differences of course but parallels can be drawn and you’d truly have to be an idiot not to realize that suppressing the rights of a minority for the sake of appeasing a largely ignorant majority is exactly what black people have had to deal with in regards specifically to love, let alone marriage as I demonstrated with Loving v Virginia.

          Now the tide is turning with gay marriage. On a state level a domino effect is taking place. I real zeitgeist shift. More than anyone we should be on the side of a minority fighting for equality, not just in terms of legal recognition but in terms of a cultural acceptance.

          Duce

          • Sha

            @GoGoMicFiend

            Your point is taken. But the fact still remains…. Just because there are similarities doesn’t make it the same plight. Black share some of the same persecution as Jews. Do you see us trying to compare it to the holocaust? Do you see the NAACP dick ridin’ on the backs of what the Jews experienced? Nope.

            Being gay is not the same as being Black. IT ABSOLUTELY IS NOT!!!

            Want to defend homosexual rights? Do that! But keep BLACK PEOPLE OUT OF YOUR CONVERSATION!

            Am I saying that gay people don’t get treated badly? No. Hell yeah they get discriminated on. But deal with that issue on it’s individual merit. Don’t drag Black people into that fight because we haven’t experienced the same thing. Not even close.

            You use interracial marriage in your argument also….

            Dude, do me a favor…. Defend Gay rights for Gay people. But don’t try to build similarities between two different arguments to justify your position. To me, that’s a cop out because you can articulate reasons to support your argument.

            That’s my whole point with GLAAD. Stop bring us black folks into your argument. Fight for your gay people without using our storied history to support your argument. We are not the same.

        • MC

          Sha,

          While I feel your passion I think you are a little misguided in your response. First, your argument totally ignores the fact that a number of Gays, Lesbians, Bi-sexual, Transgender, Cross Dressers, gender benders are black. For many, it is not only a challange to hide the color of their skin, it is exceedingly dissicult for them to conceal their gender bending this resistance to the ridgid binaries that suggests that boys aren’t effiminate or that girls don’t engage in rough and tumble play.

          Many experience discomfort not because it challanges thier own sexuality but because it’s so different from what their taught are acceptable behaviors. I abhor the idea that cross dressers and effiminate boys or massculinized girls should be tucked away from view no more that it would and does bother me when folk suggest that black men who can’t articualte themselves in ways that are socially acceptable (using appropriate english) ways or those folk of color who dress in ways that bend the social norms (baggy pants with the ass hanging out) should be hidden away. The parrellel there is remarkable when you think about it but again I see these as self expressions or simple forms of resistance to the so called ‘norm’. Should it be ok for those that don;t understand the self expression of some blacks to use derrogatory words or actions to keep these folk in check?

          I appreciate your statement that you dont get it which means that there is hope-hope that you can explore those things that you don;t get to get a better understanding and appreciation for why difference exists. In the end, I think that we all want to be not just tolerated but respected in the communities where we live…

          FYI I’m Black and I’m Gay-Hi you doin?

          • Sha

            @mc….

            First, let’s deal with something right now. No one is saying homosexuals aren’t treated badly. I do feel badly for any of God’s creatures that are mistreated based on a different belief. It’s wrong. It’s uncalled for. It’s stupid. Besides, the whole point of the bible, if you ask me, is that we all have individual control over our souls. Judgement Day is an individual thing, so no man should judge another.

            But…..

            With that being said, let me tell GLAAD once again to fu*k off!

            GLAAD has made a tremendous issue of trying to connect The Black Man’s struggle to their Gay Rights cause. It’s totally wrong to utilize a race or class of people for your own personal gain.

            And to further clarify my statements…..

            I have the same feelings about REV. AL SHARPTON & JESSE JACKSON. Sure, they gave some things to the cause. But the only REAL time you hear from them is when there’s an opportunity to do some heavy self-promotion (don’t even get me started with Jesse being caught on Fox news calling Obama the “N” word).

            So with me, it’s not that I want to hold my “Blackness” so close to my heart that nothing can touch it. I could easily pull the same example from numerous people belonging to different causes.

            GLAAD are a bunch of leaches. Sure, they’ve done some good. But trying to attach your cause to a different struggle for political and monetary gain is foul.

            Now with you, you’re Black AND Gay. That’s some tough ish to try to overcome. No one is trying to minimize your struggles. But just because you possess duality in your sufferings from other people’s stupidity, doesn’t mean that you get a pass on trying to weave those two issues into one. Hell no. They are different.

            What if I went to the doctor and complained about pain in my leg and the doctor turned around and gave me a root canal? That would be pretty stupid, huh? Just because I have pain doesn’t mean that the pain is connected. It’s not. Sure, it’s in the same body. But treating it the same as the other might kill me.

            Bottom line….. Fight your gay fight. Fight for gay rights. But stand on your own merit. Black people aren’t political weapons to be used to push your agenda.

            And by the way, I’M HETEROSEXUAL. I’m cool, my brother.

      • $yk

        “the thing that makes the black community and the gay community similar is this, people hate them for something they CANNOT control”

        ^ hate?

        I haven’t seen gays whipped and chained, hung from trees, crosses burned in front of their homes, forced to use different toilets and drinking faucets, forced to ride the back of buses, forced to work demeaning jobs, had hydrantss and hoses turned on them when they parade or protest, had their men killed or incarcerated or their women raped because of their sexuality. Black people were done like that because of the hatred towards their race.

        Some gays getting beat up or slandered is not equal to the plight of the African American, no matter how you try to spin it, it is a foolish debate to attempt.

        • Rap Fan

          I also don’t think that it is equal to the plight of African-Americans and what they’ve had to endure, but I think that you underestimate just how homophobic some areas of society truly are. I’m not gay, and I am black, but I feel for them, because I hear stories about them being murdered, tortured, and other violent things done to them. I heard about a group of guys that made me sick. They stuck a disabled, gay man inside his own house, locked the door, stole his keys, and set fire to the place, and he died of severe burns.

          So just consider things such as this when making broad statements, but I’m going to have to agree with you that it’s not the same.

        • Mos

          “I haven’t seen gays whipped and chained, hung from trees, crosses burned in front of their homes, forced to use different toilets and drinking faucets, forced to ride the back of buses, forced to work demeaning jobs.”

          Actually, many of them have experienced such things. Hate groups that focused on exploiting African American’s also attacked and did many of the same things to other minorities and homosexuals.

          “What makes you gay? Is it the sexual aspect? Because I always thought that was the primary reason someone would classify themselves as gay. The attraction to the same sex. That’s gay, right? So WTF do you call it when dudes be flaming and cross dressing and sh*t? According to the pure definition of the word “gay”, that isn’t gay. Matter of fact, that has nothing to do with webster’s definition.”

          There are always people that make certain groups look bad in the public’s view. Pointing out flamboyant, excessively loud people out as your issue to gays would be like me pointing out thug inner-city blacks as someone’s issue of blacks. Judge the individual, not the group. Also, I would have to ask why these people piss you off, as it seems that all they are doing is challenging the western conceptualizations of masculinity.

          • $yk

            Did you ever see me type hatred towards gays? I stated more than once…the gay plight for equality IS NOT the same as the Black plight for equality. This statement entails no hatred whatsoever. And no I don’t like the throwing around of sexuality, the same way I don’t like the excessive gangsta. I don’t care for excessive behavior, period.

            I’ve emailed this thread to some of the homies and went to an event this weekend and we had a long discussion with some other homies about this thread. They feel the same way, although there IS discrimination present, it’s not the same plight. I KNOW there have been incidents, but it’s not of the same magnitude.

            Did I need to notate that “we” is my girl and I…and some of the “homies” are gay couples & singles of all races?

            I enjoyed this convo, but it’s getting to the point where if you don’t agree with the GLAAD sentiment you’re a gay hater.

        • Cyndi

          Shortly after midnight on October 7, 1998, Shepard met Aaron McKinney and Russell Henderson for the first time at the Fireside Lounge in Laramie, Wyoming.[3] It was decided that McKinney and Henderson would give Shepard a ride home.[4] McKinney and Henderson subsequently drove the car to a remote, rural area and proceeded to rob, pistol-whip, and torture Shepard, tying him to a fence and leaving him to die. According to their court testimony, McKinney and Henderson also discovered his address and intended to steal from his home. Still tied to the fence, Shepard was discovered 18 hours later by a cyclist, Aaron Kreifels, who initially mistook Shepard for a scarecrow.[5] Shepard was in a coma.

          Shepard had suffered fractures to the back of his head and in front of his right ear. He experienced severe brain-stem damage, which affected his body’s ability to regulate heart rate, body temperature, and other vital functions. There also were about a dozen small lacerations around his head, face, and neck. His injuries were deemed too severe for doctors to operate. Shepard never regained consciousness and remained on full life support.

          Shepard was pronounced dead at 12:53 a.m. on October 12, 1998, at Poudre Valley Hospital, in Fort Collins, Colorado.[7][8][9][10]
          [edit] Funeral; Protests

          Kansas Baptist Fred Phelps, pastor of the Westboro Baptist Church in Topeka, Kansas, took his church’s “God Hates Fags” crusade to the Saturday, October 17, 1998, funeral of Matthew Shepard, held in Casper, Wyoming. Two of his picket signs read: “No Tears for Queers” and “Fag Matt in Hell.”
          just saying. and i am also a heterosexual.

        • TiskTisk

          @$yk,

          Then I would say that you don’t know much about history. gays were once a very visbile part of society. Overtime Christianity (Catholics) began to build momentum in the focus on gays (Rennasance, middle ages) and as a result a number of countries made sodomy a crime punishable by death (please read people). It’s a known although at times a disputed fact that when Hitler devised his cleansing plan that as many as 50,000 individuals that were considered homosexual were jailed tourtured and killed in the same camps as the jews.

          The origingal colonist the the states, although trying to escape the heavy arm of religion eventually made laws that were also punished sodomites by death. So your argument that you haven’t seen this or that it’s not to the same magnatude is just a way to dismiss the fac that gays have a much longer history of being hated. And while they were never enslaved because of their sexuality they have had a long history of abuse.

          During the 50′s when police and the public reestriced housing jobs and other rights from blacks, the same efforts were made to fire, harrass individuals that were percieved as ‘homo’. Employees from teachers to postal workers had to sign a document denying that they were gay (Google Anita Bryant). Just as MLK and Malcom X were assinated for their efforts so too was Harvey Milk and a number of others who wanted nothing more that to fight for freedoms.

          here are some that say that gays are riding on the coatails of blacks to make their case and that ‘gays should stand on thier own feet, there are just as many people who say that slavery was decades ago and that recent generations should stand on thier own feet and stop making excuses for their current state. Bth comments are dissmissive and do little to address the concerns of either group.

          Lastly, while I see that there are some who kept asking folk to stay focused, where were their disccusions on the topic at hand which was homophobia in Hip Hip. The discussions about GLAAD and the irreavant comparisons between the plight of gays compared to people of color while interesting was just a little off topic….

      • Blacks owes gays nothing

        First off to compare the gay community to a black person is offensive. I wish all you gay sympathizers would stop pushing that perversion. Blacks owe gays nothing and if you are going use hatred then you might as well use every ethnicity and race because they were all enslaved. The Slavs were enslaved even after the Emancipation Proclamation was signed, also the word slave come from Slav. I wish you people would read Black Rednecks and White Liberals by Thomas Sowell and no it is not fair to use blacks being second class citizens when the only you homosexuals can’t do is marry. I do not see GLAAD comparing themselves to Jews, Polish, Slavic’s, or Armenians. Black people in America earned their rights by dying for this country in wars paying the ultimate price and now these gay people want to disrespect you are as a people. Wake up Black America and stop listening to these liberals they hate, the fucking KKK was the enforcers of the Democratic, Plan Parenthood and Eugenics was condone by these people and now they dehumanizing you with Homosexuals. If you any you all are religious remember this Judaism, Islam, Christianity, and Buddhism are despise Homosexuality.

        • mike

          At no point in your statement did you make any sense. “Blacks owe gays nothing”… True statement, but what does that have anything to do with gays? When the hell did gays ever demand that blacks should support them? People support other people because they have compassion. They see something that is not right and they fight for something that’s so fundamental to EVERY human being as civil rights. Do you condemn white people who sympathized with blacks during the civil rights movement in 1960s? Would you say those white people “pitied” blacks and only support the cause out of their own white guilt?

          And “gays comparison to blacks” is a very loosely used term. There is no way we can compare the plight of blacks to the plight of gays. Two very different sufferings and backgrounds. But, as human beings – sentient beings – we strive to understand each other by finding common ground. And the common ground is the movement. We can draw similarities between civil rights movement and gay rights movement because of what it represents: equality. The ideology and the strive to destroy the notion of “second class citizen” still rings true no matter how dissimilar the subjects. (And you may think that gay marriage isn’t as important as the right to vote, but being able to marry, to many gays, is one very certain way to be acknowledged as first class citizens in the eyes of the government.)

          All people really want in life is to be understood – to be seen as equal to the next person. That’s the basis of the comparison. So, why not try to see where each other are coming from instead of amassing the differences. That’s how hate is born, and that’s what you’re instigating.

  • $yk

    “But the REAL problem I have with homosexuals and GLAAD is the way they try to attach their cause or the pain they feel from discrimination to THE BLACK MAN.”

    ^ Yep

    “Because if you talk to any heterosexual man, it’s not the dude that’s quietly making gay choices that annoys the ish out of him, it’s the flaming dude that pisses the heterosexual (and obviously the military) off.”

    ^ that too…that extra sh^t ain’t necessary…bottom line is I don’t throw around my hetero sexuality, you don’t need to throw around your homosexuality…

    • Theo

      do you talk about your girlfriend/wife or whatever? if you do, you’re throwing your heterosexuality around.

      I always come back to this quote by Coretta Scott King

      “I still hear people say that I should not be talking about the rights of lesbian and gay people and I should stick to the issue of racial justice… But I hasten to remind them that Martin Luther King, Jr., said, ‘Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere’ … I appeal to everyone who believes in Martin Luther King, Jr.’s dream to make room at the table of brotherhood and sisterhood for lesbian and gay people.”

      • $yk

        see the above statement to Mos

  • 404_hiphop_heads

    I’ll be more impressed with XXL when they actually start writing about some ACTUAL gay and lesbian rappers like Feloni from Detroit (surprised Em didn’t give her a nod since she was cool with Big Proof–they were in the same damn indie organization called “The Movement.” When she dropped with that hard azz les song “Brand New” on a small promotional Hip-hip Summit mixtape in 2005 sponsored by WJLB and Russell Simmons, they wanted to cancel her freakin contract because they didn’t know she was going to rapping about taking a man’s “b-tch.” WJLB ended up giving her only 16 bars on the song on the mixtape because they were so uptight about the homophobes protesting. Then Nicki Minaj drops and everybody thinks she’s the first “out” female rapper. Well, she ain’t, Feloni was. She released a debut album called “A Woman’s Revenge” in 2007. The media still has yet to give her a nod, even after MTV gave her an episode on their gay/lesbian documentary series called “Coming Out Stories.” Feloni said A&Rs told her she needed to be more “femme” looking and soften her lyrics. Mainstream is a freakin joke. I’m a fan of Feloni’s and you should check her out on iTunes or on myspace. It’s sad that it take rappers like “Lil B” to claims he’s not gay to even talk about the subject. But at least it’s a start, I’ll give y’all that much.

  • justin

    “bottom line is I don’t throw around my hetero sexuality, you don’t need to throw around your homosexuality…”

    funny cuz society throws around ITS heterosexuality with its love stories and advertisements etc etc everywhere you LOOK

    just like whites all over television back in the 90s.

    • Rap Fan

      @justin I’m going to have to completely agree with you there. Valid point.

    • JustinMyAsshole

      Congratulations!
      Of all the stupid comments on here yours was by far the most ignorant and ridiculous.
      This whole post is just stupid. Fuck all you fags destroying hip hop and the world.

      • mc

        The first response to Justin’s post completly missed the point. One need only look just a few moments at television commercials, newspaper ads, movies, and just TV in general to see that heterosexual relationships (mostly white) predominate what we see on the screen. How many shows with cast members of color do you see on stations other than BET, MTV, and perhaps Logo. Take that a little further, these are all cable channels which means that a number of us subscribe to stations where we are by and large under-represented but I digress.

        When it comes to images of sexuality, most ads and tv shows draw the viewer in based in part on the sexual content. You think not-what was the last major purchase that you made and how did you come to make the decision to buy what ever that thing is (was). Don’t think too hard because the media does a great job of fooling the masses into not seeing what’s really there. That hot sex scene that you just watched delivered the essectialist message that all men want to have sex with hot women and that by this logic those who engage in acts that go against the grain are not only wrong-their nasty weird and should be subjected to creulty…

        I would beg to differ that ‘there are more gay visuals and promiscuity shown now than actual family values’ really. On which stations because I might have missed that. Now if you’re saying that we see more LGBTQ images on the screen now than in years past then I agree but is that necessarily a bad thing? To address this issue of promiscuity-are we now saying that the only folk who engage in sex with multiple partners are LGBTQ folk or that LGBTQ folk lack family values? If so, I think somebodies been drinking th coolaid. This is a exactly what the conservative block wants-to have us divided and bickering about perripherial things rather than the true elements that lead to ones ability to obtain the ‘picket fence, both parents, son and daughter’ like how a small group gets to define family, or how this small group of conservatives can amass riches that make having these things you just listed much easier for them compared to folk from other socio economic statuses. Where do these messages come from? Who are the folk that tell you that these are good-bad qualities? You see, until you can begin to think more critically about the root of these things you’ll continue to fall prey to the systems of control.

        Rather than watch a tv show perhaps a book on the subject of race, class, sexuality will be enlightening. For some light internet reading and since many have an interest in ‘family’ do google search for homeless youth to find out who they are and the reasons why they are homeless. The intersectionality between their status and some of what I’ve written here may surprise you…Have a look, I dare ya…

        • Sha

          @mc….

          First, let’s deal with something right now. No one is saying homosexuals aren’t treated badly. I do feel badly for any of God’s creatures that are mistreated based on a different belief. It’s wrong. It’s uncalled for. It’s stupid. Besides, the whole point of the bible, if you ask me, is that we all have individual control over our souls. Judgement Day is an individual thing, so no man should judge another.

          But…..

          With that being said, let me tell GLAAD once again to fu*k off!

          GLAAD has made a tremendous issue of trying to connect The Black Man’s struggle to their Gay Rights cause. It’s totally wrong to utilize a race or class of people for your own personal gain.

          And to further clarify my statements…..

          I have the same feelings about REV. AL SHARPTON & JESSE JACKSON. Sure, they gave some things to the cause. But the only REAL time you hear from them is when there’s an opportunity to do some heavy self-promotion (don’t even get me started with Jesse being caught on Fox news calling Obama the “N” word).

          So with me, it’s not that I want to hold my “Blackness” so close to my heart that nothing can touch it. I could easily pull the same example from numerous people belonging to different causes.

          GLAAD are a bunch of leaches. Sure, they’ve done some good. But trying to attach your cause to a different struggle for political and monetary gain is foul.

          Now with you, you’re Black AND Gay. That’s some tough ish to try to overcome. No one is trying to minimize your struggles. But just because you possess duality in your sufferings from other people’s stupidity, doesn’t mean that you get a pass on trying to weave those two issues into one. Hell no. They are different.

          What if I went to the doctor and complained about pain in my leg and the doctor turned around and gave me a root canal? That would be pretty stupid, huh? Just because I have pain doesn’t mean that the pain is connected. It’s not. Sure, it’s in the same body. But treating it the same as the other might kill me.

          Bottom line….. Fight your gay fight. Fight for gay rights. But stand on your own merit. Black people aren’t political weapons to be used to push your agenda.

          And by the way, I’M HETEROSEXUAL. I’m cool, my brother.

  • $yk

    “Being gay is not the same as being Black. IT ABSOLUTELY IS NOT!!!”

    ^ this…what GoGo tried to assert was a racial issue with interracial marriage, not a sexuality issue.

    The minute similarities are within the fight for the law structure, not the struggle. And even with the law structure fight, it isn’t similar to what Blacks had to go through. I haven’t seen not one protest for gay marriage where the protesters were beaten, had dogs sicced on them, were beaten with batons and jailed, or had powerful water spouts turned on them. Have you?

  • $yk

    “Now the tide is turning with gay marriage. On a state level a domino effect is taking place. I real zeitgeist shift.”

    ^ uncle sam needs you to help pay this credit bill…now that you’re on the tab, it’s a go.

  • VSattenXXL

    Glad to see this article create such a discussion in the comments

  • $yk

    Thank you Nessa! We need this ma…

    “but I think that you underestimate just how homophobic some areas of society truly are”

    ^ no I don’t…what I am stating is that it is not on the same magnitude to merit the comparison.

    “funny cuz society throws around ITS heterosexuality with its love stories and advertisements etc etc everywhere you LOOK”

    ^ sex sells…there are more gay visuals and promiscuity shown now than actual family values (picket fence, both parents, son & daughter)…this is another thread to speak on…

  • Dj Ken

    I hate Gays. Its a stupid way of life. Anal sex btw two heterosexuals has been widely condemned medically, social and otherwise. How much more Two men f**king each other in the A*ss ???(Irritating and Disgusting). Fuck y’all Fagg*ts. Fuck Glaad. Hip hop Lives.!!

    • Mos

      How is it irritating? Are you watching it go on or something? It has been medically condemned? So I take it anal sex with a woman would be equally condemned. It is condemned socially? Because the majority opinion on a subject is always the right one as we all know. Someone here is a giant bigot.

  • Wdizzle30sizzle

    the only thing gays cant do in this country is get married. as someone mentioned. blacks couldnt marry, own property, drink out of the same water fountain or go to the same bathroom. had to sit in certain places on buses and in restaurants, couldnt vote, couldnt get certain jobs, and then there were the crossburings, lynchings, etc.

    gays have all these rights. do they get harassed by certain people in this country? sure they do. so do nerds and rich kids, but im not comparing their plight to blacks either as getting beat up by some scatterd ignoramouses doesnt equal being denied yours rights to life, liberty and pursuit of happiness on a legislative scale.

    such a comparison is intellectually irresponsible.

    • SickleMyDickleYouGaybashingNizzle

      You really got that nigger syndrome bad don’t ya.

      • $yk

        but you have that bigoted, childish commenting because you have nothing to bring to the round table discussion syndrome in you

        • fuck you

          Shut up gay nigga!

          • $yk

            a foolish remark from a foolish mortal.

    • Respect

      You’re correct, in that there are legal protections now in place in many areas to protect homosexuals from the abuses suffered by many African Americans. One of the positive things to come out of our sordid history of slavery and Jim Crow laws is that more protections are afforded to minorities of all kinds. In theory, at least, one cannot be barred from a restaurant, bar, movie theater, church, job, government building, courthouse, jury or other place based on his or her race, sexuality, gender, religion, ethnicity, etc. A lot of the connections between the African American fight for rights and that of the GLBT community are based on respect for what many African Americans (and white allies) did to gain those freedoms. Were it not for the Civil Rights movement and those who sacrificed so much, it is very likely the GLBT community today would face an even tougher struggle.
      That being said, many GLBT folks and their allies have been persecuted and killed fighting for equal rights. It seems logical to me that hip hop would be leading the fight for equal rights for all. The greats of the art have always pushed equality and their rhymes have been based off their struggles and trying to get ahead. To me, hip hop has the potential to gain a lot more support in the mainstream–aside from the radio hip POP played for the masses–by simply being true to its roots in the struggle for equality and acceptance.

    • mc

      @wdizzle…<

      Your comments are not only reductionistic they esscialize the experiences of LGBTQ folk both here in the U.S. and abroad. First, in my earlier comment I asked that readers google homelessness among youth. Those that honor that request will find that between 40 and 60 percent of youth who become homeless wind up living outside of their homes becasue of violence in the home and in their communities and as a result they turn to the streets in an effort to find a sense of safety. Unfortunatly, a number of the things that youth do while on the streets to survive are against the law (survival sex, public urination-defacation, substance use and abuse, delinquency from school etc) and as a result they are placed juvenile detention centers (when caught), foster care settings and other locked settings where the abuses that wished to avoid continue. Where not just talking about verbal and physical abuses here-many experience sexual violence and not just at the hands of youth in those settings but the adults whose job it is to protect them.

      Shelters, some foster care settings, and even adoptive families in many cases turn their backs on youth who identify as LGBTQ and so we have a revolvng door of youth in and out of institutions until they age out but then where do these youth go once they reach the age of majority?

      Just last week in Colorado there were two soldiers who were savagly beaten after leaving a gay club-an incident that is now being looked at as a hate crime. Until just recently, members of the L&G community couldn't serve openly in the armed forces based on biases and missed placed fear. And before someone makes hatefilled statements about gays in the military I'll say here that I'm black, gay, and served four years of honorable service in the military and got out because I couldn't live and be as free as my hetero counter parts but I digress.

      One last thing that I'll say here is that LGBTQ folk are barred from adopting children here in the U.S. When you think about it, if 40-60 percent of youth who become homeless and end up in foster care and remain there because some settings won't take them you would think that if there was a family that was willing and able to adopt that the state and agncies that serve shildren would allow this but again many states fight against this. So I ask, when family and your community turns its back on you what do you do? Where do you go? COnservatives don't want you to think about the impact bias and discrimination has on the targets of the abuse. One easy respnse is to say that there is no relationship between the experiences of folk of color or members of the LGBTQ community but I'll end by saying 1) many of the folk who identify as LGBTQ are aslo of color which means that they are discriminated against because of thier race and or their gender non conformity, and lastly 2) the comparisons while not an exact fit aren;t so much to diminish the experiences of Africans and thier decendants it's to draw attention to the fight for civil rights and inclusion and the hatefilled areguments that have been used/recycled (many of the same tired arguments that were used to block rights for blacks, women, folk with disabilites) are being used to diminish the experinces and rights of LGBTQ folk here in the states.

      When we look abroad, there are a number of places where being LGBTQ could mean the loss of life (not that it doesn;t happen here but I digress) and so many folk abroad do thier best to silence (even more so that folk here in the states) thier LGBTQ identity. Imagine a world where you had to hide or conceal who you are at the risk of not only ostracism but violence or death…As one poster already stated, LGBTQ folk don't want to diminish the experiences of folk of color, they merely want to replicate the peaceful means that were used in the past to bring about equality in the present.

      The one thing that the LGBTQ community needs to do is make it clear that there are folk of color, folk with disabilities, women, muslims, jews, christians, and a number of other groups that are identify along the spectrum of LGBTQ identies and that efforts will be made to ensure freedoms are extended beyond these seemingly divergent categories…

      In peace…
      MC

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  • Michael Armbrust

    @SHA. While I respect your right to feel the way you do, and commend your openness of the situation I have to disagree with your understanding as to WHY the gay community compares it’s plight and struggle with that of the African American community. We (and I say we because I am gay) don’t think that are struggles are or were the same, or that we even faced the exact same prejudice as you. We see the African American’s fight and successes as a living framework as to how we can achieve equality. Yes, we can hide our sexuality, but should we have to? Just as in the African American community you have your stereotype that all blacks are lazy, drug dealing, welfare collecting thugs, we have those misconceived perceptions too. I know they’re not true. Granted, there are those in my community that embarrass and trivialize our struggle by going to extremes and perpetuating the ‘stereotype’ that all gays are limp wristed, cross dressing, parade marching attention getters. But for the most part, we’re not all like that. We just want to be able to live our lives, free of prejudice and hate, able to marry, divorce, adopt, vacation, and talk about our loved ones without the fear of reprisal. We marvel and awe at what Martin Luther King Jr and James Bevel were able to accomplish in their lives. Take our comparison as a compliment, that we wish to achieve and aspire to live up to what your community has been able to accomplish, and not as an attack or an attempt to lessen your struggle.

    • Sha

      @Michael Armburst…..

      Dude, I have several gay female friends. And the first thing that comes out of their mouths during every discussion about gay rights is….BLACK PEOPLE.

      Now, from your point of view, I totally understand your position. And to be even more honest, I don’t think I’m speaking to a Gay dude like yourself. To have admiration for Martin Luther or Malcolm X is a wonderful thing.

      But that’s not what GLAAD has done and is continuing to do. GLAAD has hired numerous lobbyists and other politicians with their same political desires to intentionally latch on to several bills intended for Black, Asian, or Hispanic discrimination. These are facts about that organization.

      But you know what really pisses me off?

      Every time someone says something politically incorrect, the first thing they do is to reach out to GLAAD to try to clean up their image. F*ck that there is a reason that they said it in the first place. It’s all about cleaning up their image so they can continue to make some money. They do the same thing with racism. As soon as some celeb (what up Michael Richards) says some foul sh*t about black people, that celeb runs to Al Sharpton or Jesse Jackson (like those dudes speak for the entire black race). That is the foulest sh*t ever.

      My point is this…. Come up. Fight about your rights. Utilize whatever resources you have (within reason) to fight for gay rights. But don’t take a sh*t on my ancestors just to make it.

      As far as the stereotypes…..

      So what are you saying? That those dudes that walk around like that are jerks? Because, correct me if I’m wrong, you guys claim them like that is the pure definition of being gay. And to be even more honest, do you know how many men cross dress? Are you saying that those people don’t belong to your genre? There are millions of them on this earth.

      This ish just puzzles the hell out of me. Gay is the attraction to the same sex. Dressing in your mom’s clothes is obviously something different. So why do you lump those guys in the same category as gay people?

      I only ask because it’s confusing as hell. It’s not out of mockery. Educate us in this forum. Because to me, those are the dudes I think society has the issue with. Sexuality can be hidden. Those dudes can’t.

  • Nermore

    What everyone here is forgetting is that there has always been black LGBT people, people like openly gay Bayard Rustin who mentored MLK in organizing and the philosophy of nonviolent protest.

    Today, black LGBT people not only have to deal with the homophobia and hate from society but the fear and fate from their family and friends. It doesn’t stop there. They have to deal with being BLACK.

    • mc

      @Nermore

      You just summed up my comments in a few brief sntences. Thanks…

      • Nermore

        It’s all good, mc.

        How these people remain ignorant of the fact that black lgbt people have always existed just goes over my head. Is it because of all the party pictures of white and hispanic men? Well you don’t see too many similar pictures of black lgbt people because most of their time is dedicated to merely surviving. Partying is a luxury many of them can’t afford because they’re born in single parent house holds, poverty to lower middle-class incomes, and a community that shuns them. Think being straight and black can suck? Think about being the person straight blacks look down upon.

        • mc

          @Nermore,

          I don’t blame some folk for not know because as I said before, the spin doctors will have you believe one thing while simultaneously dissapearing the inconvienent ‘truth’. One of the things that came to mind yesterday as I reflected on a number of the post, most notably the one from DJ Ken is that one truth about this ‘homosexuality’ is that one inconvenient ‘truth’ is that lesbian sex, transgenders, and other non gender conforming folk are overlooked as the heteronormative gaze focuses its ‘hate’ (to borrow kens word) on men who sleep with men. This gaze also tucks away the ‘fact’ that there are large numbers of folk of colour who identify along the spectrum of LGBTQ identities in silence due to fear of ostracism and repraisal.

          Also, when you look at the club scene, folk of color are often made to feel discomfort in ‘white spaces’ and so they have clubs in similarr parts of town but often (to varying degrees) drink and socialize separately. When many think of queerness they tend to have the essentialist belief that all of most gays are white when in fact one can find LGBTQ folk represented in all cultures, races, nationalities etc etc…

          Someone stated earlier that LGBTQ folk are targeted with hoses or not allowed to gather in certain places and I would ask that folk google the Stone Wall Riots in NYC. Just as folk of color were fighting for civil rights, the queer community found itself under the scope of the ‘law’ and iin 1969 it all came to a boil in NYC. Similar incidents of harrassment have occurred in a number of otherplaces here in the states and abroad. Take look at the gay rights movement in Toronto and youll find that some twenty years after the riots in NYC that the same thing occured there as well. One good thing came from the events in Toronto thougt, you’ll find gay folk are tolorated much more so there than in most other places in the world. But of course they don’t exactly share our history here in U.S. (women’s suffrage movement, slavery, jim crow laws) but I think you get my point. There was a raid in 2009 of a gay establishment and as a result of the harrassment several officers lost thier jobs and that city just lost a lawsuit to the tune of one million dollars (google it PLEASE).

          Folk are aware of the experiences of LGBTQ folk because we aren’t supposed to matter-we shouldn’t exisit and so we often become the oject of hate and intolerance. The heteronormatve gaze makes it so that other forms of sexuality don’t garner nearly the amount of attention as that given to the LGBTQ community and ths many are lead to blieve that this is the group that most often challanges ‘heterosexuality’. One need only look at fetish websites like fetlife.com and you’ll find that there is a much broader community of folk who exist but fail to recieve the same amout of attention in light of the interests…

          • mc

            I should have added that the last raid that I mentioned occured in Atlanta for those with an interest. And I appoize for the grammer mistakes-I’m a little hurried to get to a Blues Event locally….

            In Peace..
            MC

    • Sha

      @Nermore…..

      Ummmm. I think you’re getting it a little twisted. This was never a discussion about if a gay person ever fought for Black Rights before.

      To me, this is an issue of someone trying to use Black People as tools in their fight for Gay Rights. It would be completely stupid of me to suggest that a Gay man has never fought for equality among races. Just as it would be stupid of you to suggest that a black man has never fought for equal rights for Gay people.

      Stay focused….

  • ATL Guy

    I’m black. I’m gay. I’m a consumer. I’ve moved on from rap music so long ago that whatever these rappers say don’t mean anything to me at all. Unless you’re paying my bills and feeding me, I don’t think you should have a say in how I live my life. I’m not flamboyant or in a gay relationship but I think the same should be said to those that may be in those situations: it’s none of your business what they do in their private lives. I could care less about Eminem and all those other clowns who’ve made money out of the black community and yet want to diss a portion of that community that has money to spend. Black gay people have to put up with nonsense from their families and the church; we don’t need to be supporting artists that are blatantly homophobic and disrespectful to us. Don’t buy their music – plain and simple.

    • Sha

      @ATL Guy….

      You’re right. You can do what you want with your money. But you’re kinda contradicting yourself seeing as though this is a hip-hop website.

      Dude, don’t be a pus*y (no pun intended). Just because some dudes said something you don’t like, don’t run. That’s exactly what’s wrong with this country today. Be the dude that holds his ground. There isn’t one clown on earth that will sway me away from something that I love and appreciate. Hip-Hop is the ish! If some dudes say things that piss you off, let em know!

  • mc

    @Sha,

    Let me open by syaing thanks for yet another opportunity to explain my position. I just types a long winded response which was subsequently lost in the wind we call the internet; however, I’m still invested enough in this discussion to type out a reply.

    Something just dawned on my as I re read some of the feedback here and that was related to the inability of folk of color to hde thier blackness and here I’ll argue and remind the readers that there wre many folk in our not so distant past who made efforts to do this to varying degrees of success. This was called ‘passing’. There were many movies and books written about this very phonomenon so I just needed to put that out there.

    I think I started my response by pointing out the living breathing nature of the document that we call the Constitution. It’s a living breathing document because our so called “Founding Fathers’ created it so that it could be interpreted and reinterpreted. And over the years we’ve seen this done quite a bit.

    The document was initially interpretted to guarantee life, liberty, and freedom to men. This minimized the freedoms of woman (hence the need for the womens suffrage movement and the 19th Amendment to the COnstitution) and certainly ignored the need to extend rights and freedoms to folk of color.

    When we talk about the civil rights movement, this wasnt just about rights for the decendants of Africans brought over in chains, this also included Native Americans (so called Indians) and others who embodied ‘blackness’ (just wanted to make the additional distinction).

    Those things that were not addressed in the Constitution are addressed in Amendments like the 13th (1863) which freed the slaves, and the Fourteth Amendmend (1868) which guaranteed freedoms for whites and blacks before the law, and the Fiftenth Amendment which gave Blacks the right to vote (remember again that while this was signed in 1870 it would be several decades before these same rights would be extended to woman via another amendment).

    In order to challange the so called objectivity of the law, one must formulate an argument that has some grounding in law and lawyers do that by looking at cases that have been heard and decided upon in he courts (for those issues that go that route since we have three equally powerful brances each wiith the power to make precedints when it comes to the law).

    One of the civil rights cases that acts as a precident for civil rights is Loving vs Virginia-a case that made it illegal to marry interracially and proscribed punishments for those who violated the law. The lawyers who argued from both sides of the aisle in court presented previous cases and in the end the judge ruled that anti messgenation laws violated the 14th amendment right to due process.

    While LGBTQ lawyers could certainly bring cases to the court and argue violations of due process or any of the other interlocking pieces of the 14th amendment, they certainly use this case (which is often used in the court as a way to ground and solidify an argument) the statement and opinion of the judge at the time has and continues to have usefulness in similar challanges that make thier way to the courts. The judge stated that the statutes (existing anti messgenation laws) deprive the Lovings of liberty without due process of law in violation of the due process of the 14th amendment (see they have to groud their arguement in relationship to an established rule).” He (I assume it was a he based on this time period but I digress) that “marriage is one of the basic civi rights of man, fundamental to our very existance and survival’. He didn’t stop short and say that marraige is defined as a union between an man and a woman he said again that ‘marriage is on of the basic civil rights of man, fundamental to out very existance and survival’. But you see, because the constitution is a living and breathing document it leaves it open to interpretation and leaves room for additional challanges to be made down the road like the current cases that are making their way through the courts asking that this ‘fundamental right’ be extened to the LGBTQ community. This is the process. The law while it may have started out addressing the needs of one group can certainly be applied and made use of to address other areas that may not have already been addressed….

    Just as the civil rights movement for blacks (again, this also included Native Americans {see the Loving vs Virginia case to see how colored was defined for clarity], the womans equality movement was well underway, and somewhere in the back ground the LGBQT rights (see the Stone Wall Riots of 1969) and disabilites rights movements were co-occurring all at one.

    GLAAD, the Human Rights Campaign and other champions of LGBTQ rights don’t wish to diminish or step on black folk in order to make their cases-they simply make use of case law just as agencies like NOM use thier money and clout to bring cases throught the courts in an effort to challange or maintain a position.

    While I feel your hate and concern as it’s directed at GLADD and other agencies that serve the LGBTQ community, I’ll argue here that while I empathize with this position its a little misplaces. You see, GLAAD and other advocates make use of case law in much the same way that the National Organization for Marriage and the Conservative block make use of the courts to have their position heard. Only, NOM and agencies like them have contributors with much deeper pockets which means that they can raise funds more easily in an effort to do an end run around the courts by using elected officials to circumvent the will of those that elect them. When you get upset with GLAAD you’re missing the point that thier responding to bias and stigma that occurs at levels well beyond you and I in ways that we’ll probably never trully understand…

    My brain is fried from typing a second response and so I’ll say next that the term gay is one which is used to lable same sex attraction between men, lesbian is a term used to for same sex attraction between women (I see that you used gay to describe your lesbian friends), trangendered is a term used to describe individuals who identify with the gender/sex that is the opposite of their biological or birth gender/sex (much more complicated than this and please note that this is not a pathology although the scientific community lead many to believe that it is), Queer a term used to describe those who resist that rigidly established heteronormaive binaries (male/female/boy/girl/top/bottom [these binaries make it so that one is good and the other is bad]), and many others (ie pansexual, heteroflexive,…). As I said before, cross dressers have a history of thier own and while some are gay identiied, there are a number of folk who cross dress but maintain their interest in opposite sex attraction. THese folk resist the rigid rules in somewhat of the same way that some folk of color do with their baggy clothes, gold chains, gold teeth. It’s not good or bad it’s an expression of their individuality and although some may not understand it-that shouldn’t mean that they should fear attack or violence.

    The flamboyant gay that you describe has every right to be as deliciously flamboyant as that person of color has to his right to resist the rigid rules around how one is expected to speak (broken english, slang and other forms of expressive resistance) with out being called a F word or the N word for that matter. The way that they parrellel is that they are entitled to the same freedoms to express themslves in the absence of repraisal. This is called tolerance and respect of difference.

    I don’t for one moment but the arguement that folk are ok with gay folk and have the strongest response to flammboyant gays or those who cross dress. Just last week to gay soldiers were vicously attacked becuase they ‘looked gay’ what ever that means…

    And te last thing that I’d like to respond to is your comment to ATL Guy with regards to his advice that folk not buy from artist who may make homophobic comments or statements-I don’t think for a moment that this was the advice of a ‘pu@@y” this was good ole fashioned boycotting….Not buying products sends a strong message especially when it comes from a community of folk that has a disposable income at the helm to support the carbon prints that make on the world.

    I think that flamboyant gays and cross dressers have every right to exist and be in the world as their counter parts of color and I would viciously defend the rights of each no matter the aggresser…

    In Peace

    • Sha

      @mc….

      I appreciate your dedication to this dialog. This is exactly what needs to be done in order to battle problems in our society. But to be honest? Half of the issues you brought up aren’t really relevant to this conversation. But I’ll address the relevant issues you spoke of.

      First….for my comments to ATL GUY…
      While I understand your intention of trying to give a clearer meaning to his statement, it is more appropriate to let the writer stand on his own words. We aren’t lawyers here and part of the wonderful thing about this forum is that we all have the opportunity to debate our positions. I’m not saying you can’t “co-sign” his sentiment. But let him give us the meaning of his statements and let him debate me if it’s something he feels slighted on.

      Second….

      I believe I know what GLAAD is “intended” to be. Yeah. I’m aware of how the company started out and what it was intended to be. But you need to be honest with yourself about some basic American History. Whenever there is huge amounts of money involved, ANY AND ALL COMPANIES CHANGE FOR THE WORSE. Not the better.

      Example….. It was a time when the NAACP actually stood up for people of color. But then money got thrown into it. Now, for the most part, The NAACP chooses which case to accept based more and more off of “raising” their profile within the black communities. This can’t be disputed. It’s truth.

      Let me ask you a question. If you had a glass of water, and you saw someone taking a piss right beside the glass of water (with a few drops splashing into the glass), would you still drink it?

      In my opinion, partly contaminated is the same as completely contaminated. GLAAD (and numerous other organizations) have done some grimy things to gain their clout. Am I supposed to overlook those things just to give them credit for the visible good they do?

      Now what am I saying here? Am I saying that GLAAD never does any good for any one? No. Am I saying that GLAAD is totally corrupt? No.

      What I AM saying is that the rules by which GLAAD intended to play have been drastically tainted by M.O.N.E.Y. And sh*ting on ethnic groups is a part of that dirty equation.

      And even more to my point GLAAD absolutely has stepped on the black man to get clout. To deny that is foolish because the nature of our society is to use and exploit for monetary profit. America has one religion. The all mighty dollar.

      I’m not knocking anything that you said. But to stay on subject, GLAAD is guilty of using blacks, asians, and any other ethnicity to push forward their agenda.

      • mc

        @Sha,

        “Let me ask you a question. If you had a glass of water, and you saw someone taking a piss right beside the glass of water (with a few drops splashing into the glass), would you still drink it?”

        No, and I think that a number of folk who identify as LGBTQ have decidely walked away from Hip-Hop for this very reason. While I respect ‘Slim Shady’ and all of the things he’s been through in life, why should I spend my $19.99 on his CD when every other word out of his mouth compares his nemises to being a fag…Again, not purchasing his CD sends a clearer message of my lack of interest in his homophobic lyrics.

        You say don’t let folk sway you or make you walk away from what you believe or love and I say to this: Have you let the NAACP or GLAAD for that matter know what you think and feel about what they are doing in the community? I mean you did say they do good things. Should we abondon advocacy all together becasue of corruption. Isn’t there a lot of corruption in politics? As I mentioned earlier agencies like NOM use their money and clout to control who gets into certain offices. I hear NOM is raising 2 million dollars to oust senators in NY that voted for marriage equality. How interesting is it that during a recession that a segment of the population can afford to focus its money and attention on one of the states in the union. With 2 million in the coffers available to hit NY what state is next and which agencies should get tasked to defend civil rights?

        While I agree with you that there is corruption in adocacy and politics abondoning and saying FU#@ doesn’t help those in need of protection.

        ‘In my opinion, partly contaminated is the same as completely contaminated. GLAAD (and numerous other organizations) have done some grimy things to gain their clout. Am I supposed to overlook those things just to give them credit for the visible good they do?’

        And if this is tru then what do we do about Hip-Hop. I mean, this started out as a call for action. KRS One and those that stood with were about equality and not division. Today, many Hip Hop artists are pissing on LGBTQ folk in order to get ahold of that almight dollar. Many are willing to ignore the hate and calls to violence because it has a catchy beat behind it. I’ll pass on that glass of water with dribblets of piss floating in along the edges thanks.

        I am glad (no pun of course) to see (read) that the hate charged rhetoric about gays was dropped from your correspondence. I shows me that you can be empathic towards the hurt that many feel when those are hurled so freely. While many may think that being black, gay, from a low socio economic status, or living in poverty are mutually exclusive events I’ll argue that they are just as interconnecting and inseparable as civil rights is to all of the forms of oppression that the movement (s) have and continue to address over time.

        Last thought that I’ll share here before logging off fr good, get out there and vote my people. I think we often sit back and allow the process to take place withoout recognizing the importance of how the 13, 14, 15, and 19 amendments have on our daily lives. Our forfathers sure didn’t think that they were unimportant-Hip Hop of the past certainly didn’t dismiss these things and so why do we?

        In Peace…

        • Sha

          @mc….

          My opinions on this issue haven’t changed.

          One, GLAAD is still on my sh*t list.

          Two, No one has clarified why cross dressers are breast fed by the gay community, even though the definition of being gay has nothing to do with wearing womens’ clothing and being flamboyant with their behavior.

          If you took my statements as overtly mean or evil, that’s on you. It wasn’t my intention and maybe instead of jumping to the first assumption that someone is being evil and mean spirited you should dig deeper to find out what they are trying to say.

          This dialog was good for hip-hop in general because others saw the comments. But as it pertains to my position, I am unchanged.

        • Sha

          @mc….

          Also to my “piss in cup” theory. You get props for being kinda clever and trying to use that as a foundation for my argument. But there’s only one thing….. Stay focused and stay on subject.

          I believe when I told Mr. ATL GUY that he shouldn’t be swayed, I was referring to him not standing up for his beliefs and abandoning something he loves or enjoys for the sake of another person.

          When we are talking about GLAAD, it’s different. GLAAD never had my support from day one. It doesn’t mean that I have something against them. It doesn’t mean that I believe everything they do is bad. It simply means that until an organization (not a culture, which hip-hop clearly is) changes it’s ways, it should be held accountable.

          Hip-Hop is a movement. A culture.

          GLAAD is a company.

          Nice try dude. But stay focused.

  • Michael Armbrust

    @SHA Sorry that I failed to also attempt to tackle the GLAAD issue. I TOTALLY agree with you that once an organization has gotten so large, it fails to remember what and who got it there to begin with. GLAAD and the HRC both have had scandal after scandal lately with image vs money. Both have had recent leaders that have been involved in ‘shall we say’ questionable business practices and have basically lowered themselves to be simple ‘out for hire’ firms. It’s sad really what has become of the NAACP, GLAAD, HRC, and the like…

  • Sha

    @Michael Armbrust……

    Good looking fam…. I never was knocking Gay people in general. But NAACP, GLAAD, THE GOVERNMENT…. These companies ( and yes the government is a company) may seem to have positive goals, but until people start being honest about those problems they will never get fixed. Who knows? I could co-sign GLAAD’S efforts one day. But not until they deal with some major ish.

    Good convo….. Thanks for the dialog.

  • $yk

    “GLAAD has made a tremendous issue of trying to connect The Black Man’s struggle to their Gay Rights cause. It’s totally wrong to utilize a race or class of people for your own personal gain.”

    “The minute similarities are within the fight for the law structure, not the struggle. And even with the law structure fight, it isn’t similar to what Blacks had to go through. I haven’t seen not one protest for gay marriage where the protesters were beaten, had dogs sicced on them, were beaten with batons and jailed, or had powerful water spouts turned on them. Have you?”

    ^ these are my sticking points.

    Good sticking point about the NAACP Sha…and about how GLAAD is trying to use our ancestors’ pain & suffering for their agenda. There’s no way one can compare isolated incidents of gay bashing to centuries of pure hatred and oppression.

    As intelligent as many of these comments have been (and if many never stated you were gay, I would have never known), I find it hard to believe some can’t see the stark difference in this “comparison”.

  • Sha

    @$yk….

    What up fam? We do what we do…. Thanks for not having your blinders on. Keep grindin’!

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  • Malcolm Brown

    Good day,

    First and foremost I would like to take this opportunity to thank the magazine for going head on with a topic as such. I am so proud to call myself a fan of this magazine and all of its peeks. With that said reading this article showed me there is a change for homophobia in the Hip Hop community. Listen as a gay black man who loves Hip Hop, I was a pain realization when some of my favorite rappers used words like Faggot, or Queer etc. I have supported some of those rappers and to know that someone you have support use those words are hurtful and sometimes even unforgettable, but my support stands. Because in order to educate you have to be in the race and not drop out. With that said I am also a Christian and believe in many values of the bible, but when Sigel referenced the bible to support his homophobia, I laughed. The bible that we praise so much as people of color were the same bible that use to allow WHITES slave owners to put us on trees and hang us. They would justify it with the same bible we are referencing. Now I know what the bible says about homosexual behavior, but if you really want to understand how contradicting we are as a people, Read the part that states a man should be stoned if he lies in a bed with a women having her period. PEOPLE Love is really for everyone you have to evolve to understand that GOD is not going to condemn us for who we love, but how we treated each other. WE need a Hip HOP HOMOPHOBIA summit in Brooklyn NY in 2011.

  • http://www.youthfulkinfolk.com PabloTheDopeman

    Well written article, the only thing I would note is that Lil B is from West Berkeley not Oakland, he’s from the group The Pack with the “Vans” song a few years back originating from Berkeley.

  • Snoopy

    AGREED….goes 2 show how open minded ppl r becoming n society…GAY is here its not goin away and its no longer hiding….ppl overlook great talent because they let their vision get blurred when they hear gay…look at artists like Kickz, Jay Squared, Cee Smith, Studphamous, Hart, Yung Snazz and the entire Rainbow Noise Ent movement….its artists such as them that are leading the way to having “gay rappers” heard n mainstream radio and not simply independent and underground outlets….*pay attn*~Superstud~

  • Joeblow

    A music culture that went from inclusive, empowering, sexy and smooth (Jazz, Blues, Soul, R&B) to bombastic, hateful, violent and often illiterate (Rap, Hip Hop) which also helps to marginalize and repress entire generations of African Americans.

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