Black Sheep
Change Clothes

In the early ’90s, the Native Tongue collective influenced a generation with their thought-provoking lyrics and light-hearted, anything-goes presentation. Amidst De La Soul, the Jungle Brothers and A Tribe Called Quest, there was the black sheep of the family—Black Sheep. The duo, consisting of Dres and Mista Lawnge (now known as Mr. Long), released A Wolf in Sheep’s Clothing in 1991 to critical acclaim and widespread praise. The hit single, “The Choice is Yours,” can still have an entire party picking it up to this day. Unfortunately, the group didn’t maintain the same longevity.

After dropping the unsuccessful Non-Fiction in 1994, the duo officially split in 2000 to pursue their own independent projects. Eventually, they linked back up to work on their new album 8WM: Novakane, a soulful, surprisingly mature effort from a group that has been all but forgotten by today’s hip-hop audience. While the album was originally slated for a 2005 release, Dres took the time to establish his own label, Bum Rush, on which he finally dropped the album last week. Who’s a Black Sheep? What’s a Black Sheep? Dres sits down with XXLMAG.COM to talk about his relationship with Mr. Long, why hip-hop is finally starting to grow up, and why people need to give respect to those who’ve paved the way in hip-hop.

Listen:
Black Sheep "Whodat?" (2006)

Black Sheep "Grew Up" (2006)

Black Sheep "Shorty" (2006)

All taken from 8WM: Novakane (2006)

What’s been the hardest part of starting your own label?
There was stuff that I had to re-learn. It’s hard to run your own label, when you’re one of the controllers of your own destiny. The labels don’t have respect for that or artists themselves. I’m a little bit ashamed of cats in New York. We’re all from the same place and we’re all worried about being a “king”. That’s sad, especially when no one owns any of these blocks, corners or buildings. I’m looking at hip-hop on a much more global level. Other places outside of the States are knowledgeable about the game and I just want us to grow up and do something more responsible with the power that we have. We’re frontin’ on ourselves so hard that it’s sad. We need to start talking about different things with the music that we put out. We don’t have to play those games anymore. If you got a hustle, there’s nothing that a record can say to make that any different. You got people out here looking at basketball and being a rapper as career options. There are a hundred ways to make money, instead of just aspiring to make a rap record for attention.

What were you up to before you started working on the new album?
Just living life. I bought a crib down in Charlotte. I stayed active in music. I did an online project. I was even fortunate to jump in a film with Laurence Fishburne called Once In The Life. I really was focused on getting myself back on my feet and growing up. I’ve bumped my head more than a few times, but it’s not how many times you hit your head, it’s really how you deal with it and pick up the pieces. I’ve never felt like hip-hop was validation for me like it is now. I didn’t feel like I had to do this shit just to be known. I wasn’t in it for the chain or glory. I never felt like I had to do hip-hop in order to be who I wanted to be. But the game is different now. People come in here now to validate themselves. Cats from my era must be cut from a different cloth. Maybe that’s why people rhyme about the things that they do now.

The album was supposed to be released last year. Why did it take so long to come out? Did it have anything to do with you and Mr. Long going your separate ways?
Nah, it was more that I was trying to find a [label] situation. On the real, Long and I were going through some internal stuff, but we also had some deal offers that didn’t feel right. So, I kind of backed up from it and started to retool the album. I wanted people to see the work that was being done. I felt like I wasn’t getting the help that should’ve been there, but it also led to me switching my mind frame. I wanted the album to come out on its own accord. I feel that it’s better because of the time taken out to work on it. It’s like how they say, “No wine before its time.” Now, it’s the time. I was able to get my own situation off the ground. Thank God, because Bum Rush is established to not only represent me, it’s there to represent my other artists as well. But with Long…he said that he was tired of waiting. And to me, it was just a funny statement because I felt like I wasn’t holding him back from doing anything. So, I didn’t want to be the catalyst for him not doing him. He wanted to do the solo thing.

How much input did he have in this album?
He didn’t have much input on this project. He was living in Miami and I was in New York. He got on his feet at the end of the project, but he also let his ego get in front of him, and that’s unfortunate. He wouldn’t allow himself to not have credit on the album. I thought it wasn’t that serious, but I wish him the best through it all. I hope that he doesn’t step out of character because, on the real, that’s my little brother. But people get caught up in the perception of who they think they are. I just feel that with the moves that he made…he made a mistake.

[Interview continued on next page]

When you say Long wasn’t “on his feet” before, what do you mean?
He wasn’t financially stable. I gave him an MP and we started to put some things together. But just an MP doesn’t equate for a good album. In the beginning, I was hearing a good foundation. But you have to understand that it’s a different time. Just having a funky loop wasn’t going to cut it. The production game is way above what it was back in the day. I was bumping some of the young guys who produced and I wanted him [Long] to come and hear these guys. I wanted him to share production credit. I mean, these were young guys who had wanted to share that credit with him. My dude didn’t want to respond to none of that. He felt that it should be him and only him. I was paying for everything during production, even splitting the show money with him. I wasn’t trying to be on any ego-type tip.

How did you react when you heard Long was working on his own solo album?
Eventually, the publicist hit me with an album. It was Long’s! He was spending money to do him and I was spending money to do us. It was then that he let me know that that’s how it was. I bit my tongue and let him go by saying, “God Bless.” I just think that he made a mistake by stepping out at this particular time. He was like the original Spinderella, or like the fourth member of Guy. He left at a pivotal moment in our career. The album is really good. But I can’t worry about that. I have to worry about the company and myself, because if I don’t do me…nobody else cares. No one reached out to help me. The same people who I helped—and I’m talking about kept the lights on and helping send their kids to school—didn’t even call to see if I was doing alright.

In a 2005 interview, you gave your opinion about the state of hip-hop. A year later, has your opinion changed?
I’d have to say yes and no. I see the people getting really tired of what hip-hop is. But I also see hip-hop growing up. To me, I view some of the cats in the game as “teenagers.” I can understand why they go out and do some of the things that they do, but I also see that hip-hop wants to be something bigger. I see hip-hop’s aspiration. We have hundreds of millionaires—the game provided us with that blessing. We have the opportunity to do things that have never been done before. We’re at a point where we can truly create our own businesses, like hospitals and day care centers. We can build something valid in our community.

Hip-hop puts a lot of pressure on regular folks to buy things that they can’t afford. You know what Stephon Marbury is doing with his new shoes? I’m going to buy them. I don’t respect a lot of cats who put a G5 in your face, while some guys are struggling to buy a train ticket. It’s not meant for people to have things overnight, but you got guys caught up in keeping up with the Joneses. But at the end of the day, you can’t be afraid to put the work in. Hip-hop is twofold; I’m seeing that people are tired, the labels are worried because people aren’t buying albums. You see Gnarls Barkley, and even me, coming up with creative [ways] to get our ideas out to people. There are different avenues that this culture can use to keep growing.

On the album, this line stood out to me: “That we/Can break a barrier without one key/Then turn around and try to imitate a mob flunky” What is it about the sensational images presented in hip-hop that appeal to a wide audience?
In my opinion, it’s just like a movie. Like Scarface and Goodfellas. Everyone can relate to not having anything. So to come from a place where you don’t have anything, people can get caught up in the fantasy of achievement. Hip-hop is just Scarface mentality on wax. But to me, it’s just so much more than that.

On the real, I have friends of mines who are never coming home. They tell me about the mob cats in jail. They’re not the respectable guys portrayed in the movies. But we go out and change our name, get tattoos, the whole nine. We shift our entire life for something that is beneath us. We’re just so much more than a group of degenerates. I’m not saying that Italians are [degenerates], I’m saying that about mob figures. We’re much bigger than that and it’s important that that energy is out there. People with a sense of self will understand that. It’s not for everybody, but it’s important for the people to know that it is out there. That’s where my head is at. I need cats to see me in those Marburys because it lessens the pressure of trying to have more when you have little. It’s not to say that I don’t like money, but at the end of the day, there are bigger things out there.

You’ve always been known for your conscious, critical thinking, ever since you were down with the Native Tongues in the early ’90s. How do you think you’ve changed since then?
One thing that has changed is definitely my maturity level. I was a little bit impressionable and I was always trying to take shortcuts. I had a lot of growing up to do. A Wolf in Sheep’s Clothing was some of the first songs that I had ever wrote in life. I feel like I’ve evolved. I’m proud of everything that I’ve done, but I was also unsure about myself. I feel like I’m doing high school again and I know all the answers. I can be cool with the nerd, as opposed to kicking it with the football guy, and not be worried about the perception from other people. I don’t really care about what people say about me. The most important thing is how I view myself.

Do you think hip-hop can make the same change that you’ve made personally?
In my heart, without question. I see it happening in a real roundabout way. People are becoming more grown. Don’t get me wrong, a lot of the bullshit still exists, but I definitely see the difference. I hear people talking about different things. Some of the nonsense that cats were into two, three years ago…they wouldn’t touch now. We’re at a time where hip-hop is continuing to grow and take over, which is such a blessing. We have to start looking at each other as competition for originality. You have to understand that people have to do knowledge about the culture. Check it…Grand Master Caz is one of the dopest emcees now! He could get on the stage now, next to any emcee, and he could get busy better than them. Not even on no old school shit, he’s just dumb nice. Just Ice, too! There are a lot of things that we’re shunning because of “age,” but we have to have that respect because those are the ones who’ve paved the way.

I’m not trying to point a finger at no one. I’m just saying that people need to look at what has come before them. You wouldn’t hear New Kids on the Block being disrespectful or not acknowledging the Rolling Stones. We need to embrace this culture. If you’re 25 and have lived in the inner city…you’ve been through some shit! I have love for the older cats, they’re the reason why we have the things that we have. You need to find Caz and just build with him. He could tell these MCs about themselves more than they could vice versa. This didn’t start for some materialistic stuff. A man who pulls out an AK-47 on a DVD is a gimmick! ‘Cause, you see…all I need is one mic. [Laughs.] Can you talk about life? If I told you to take all that otherness out, could you spit? At the end of the day, I look at it like this: who are we? We’re the children of kings, the songbirds of the struggle. Why limit ourselves mentally, physically, the whole nine? Do you think that a slave who was finally made free would talk about his chains?